dealers suck

[A fireman]

Well in preparation for my trip to NY I wanted to get my airbag system working again so I went to have the local Pontiac dealer look it over and fix it. They told me about $1000 including labor, because the controller module was bad, naturally I don't have the cash so I told them heck no. that was yesterday, this morning I went to the local junk yard and found a 97 bird with no body damage and got the $820 module for $25 bucks and it took 5 minutes to install it my self. Light is off for 0.25% of the original estimate. Dealers are only good for diagnosis it seems. Oh and BTW its one plug and the unit snaps into place so all you need is a screwdriver to take the molding from next to the door. I'm glad I didn't let them do the work.

[Bird_Of_Prey]

Re: dealers suck

That is why most people on these enthusiast sites do their own work. You might have even been able to do that research here and saved yourself the diagnostic fee.

[Jtels2593]

Re: dealers suck

Shortly after my parents bought their '93 Camry new (still own it with 220k miles) in November 1992, the air bag light illuminated on the dash. After taking the car to the Toyota dealer, the repair bill was going to be an estimated $600. Long story short, the car was under warranty and my mom explained if she was involved in an accident and the air bags didn't deploy, she would own the dealership. Toyota repaired the problem free of charge.

I firmly believe that there are certain mechanics on a car that should carry a lifetime, transferable warranty. The most important of these would be safety features such as air bags, seat belts and more modern features such as the sensors that apply the brakes when the car is to close to an object.

[DAS BOOT]

Re: dealers suck

Shortly after my parents bought their '93 Camry new (still own it with 220k miles) in November 1992, the air bag light illuminated on the dash. After taking the car to the Toyota dealer, the repair bill was going to be an estimated $600. Long story short, the car was under warranty and my mom explained if she was involved in an accident and the air bags didn't deploy, she would own the dealership. Toyota repaired the problem free of charge.

I firmly believe that there are certain mechanics on a car that should carry a lifetime, transferable warranty. The most important of these would be safety features such as air bags, seat belts and more modern features such as the sensors that apply the brakes when the car is to close to an object.

When does it stop?

So a dealer is going to be responsible to fix things that have 15 million miles and 80 years on them?

That is going to drive the cost of a new car through the roof like $10-15k possibly...





As for the original poster... what did you expect, you are comparing a new item vs. something from a U-pullit. I bet the labor was something like $100 nothing major, its all the cost of the part.

That is like saying, the dealer is such a rip off, you can buy a used car for much much less.

[cam98aro]

Re: dealers suck

When does it stop?

So a dealer is going to be responsible to fix things that have 15 million miles and 80 years on them?

That is going to drive the cost of a new car through the roof like $10-15k possibly...





As for the original poster... what did you expect, you are comparing a new item vs. something from a U-pullit. I bet the labor was something like $100 nothing major, its all the cost of the part.

That is like saying, the dealer is such a rip off, you can buy a used car for much much less.

i tend to agree, the only reason car manufactures give warranties is because nobody will buy a car without one these days.

a dealer is going to install a new part, not go down to the junkyard and find one for $25. airbag stuff is pretty expensive.

[A fireman]

Re: dealers suck

I understand the cost and labor of doing the work but I have opened up and priced the parts on the 1 board in that little aluminum box and its approximately $50 for me to build it so call it 100 for the automated system they told me $820 for the box alone. I know I can get a NEW computer online for 80 bucks 1/10th the price they wanted so that is why I said they suck. I know its used and that's really not comparable to new but to charge 800 for a simple activator is a bit excessive. This wasn't to start a war I was just venting so don't think I hate dealers entirely just the price for parts.

[DAS BOOT]

Re: dealers suck

I understand the cost and labor of doing the work but I have opened up and priced the parts on the 1 board in that little aluminum box and its approximately $50 for me to build it so call it 100 for the automated system they told me $820 for the box alone. I know I can get a NEW computer online for 80 bucks 1/10th the price they wanted so that is why I said they suck. I know its used and that's really not comparable to new but to charge 800 for a simple activator is a bit excessive. This wasn't to start a war I was just venting so don't think I hate dealers entirely just the price for parts.

I understand you can build and do whatever. I know its extremely easy to build alot of electronics.


But this isn't like you got quoted $820 from dealer, and only $50 from autozone/advanced/o'reillys.

Its the cost of goods.

[Jtels2593]

Re: dealers suck

When does it stop?

So a dealer is going to be responsible to fix things that have 15 million miles and 80 years on them?

That is going to drive the cost of a new car through the roof like $10-15k possibly...

Most cars will never exceed 300k miles and some don't make it to 200k miles. I firmly believe that safety features should be warrantied against failure for the life of the vehicle. If I was injured in a collision and the air bags did not deploy in my 4 year old Lacrosse Super, I would venture to say that either GM installed faulty equipment (not deliberately) or the vehicle had been tampered with at some point.

As for the $10-15k cost of performing such tasks, I'm not sure how you drummed up those figures. I would like to know how many vehicles per year experience problems with faulty seat belts and/or air bag systems.. probably not many. As high as new vehicle prices have become in recent years, they should come with all kinds of warranties! Also, please pardon what may be ignorant to some, but if safety equipment warranties somehow drove up the price of new vehicles by $10-15k, then it would be a good time to cut some outrageous and undeserved UAW benefits in order to bring that cost down.

[A fireman]

Re: dealers suck

I understand you can build and do whatever. I know its extremely easy to build alot of electronics.


But this isn't like you got quoted $820 from dealer, and only $50 from autozone/advanced/o'reillys.

Its the cost of goods.

my point is there is no need to charge over 800 dollars for a simple board. cost of goods should be based on cost of parts labor and an acceptable profit. but this is just my opinion.

[Cool81z28]

Re: dealers suck

Most cars will never exceed 300k miles and some don't make it to 200k miles. I firmly believe that safety features should be warrantied against failure for the life of the vehicle. If I was injured in a collision and the air bags did not deploy in my 4 year old Lacrosse Super, I would venture to say that either GM installed faulty equipment (not deliberately) or the vehicle had been tampered with at some point.

As for the $10-15k cost of performing such tasks, I'm not sure how you drummed up those figures. I would like to know how many vehicles per year experience problems with faulty seat belts and/or air bag systems.. probably not many. As high as new vehicle prices have become in recent years, they should come with all kinds of warranties! Also, please pardon what may be ignorant to some, but if safety equipment warranties somehow drove up the price of new vehicles by $10-15k, then it would be a good time to cut some outrageous and undeserved UAW benefits in order to bring that cost down.

Of course it's going to raise the price of cars tremendously. Not only would they be having to warranty cars for 20, 30 or even 50 years or longer, you are opening a door for them to be liable for any litigation for as long as any car they build is on the road.

A car dealer can be held liable for certain number of years after new because there is an expected reliability of the product over a given period of time.

Do you really think a manufacturer should be sued for large sums of money because a dry rotted 30 year old wire on an air bag doesn't function.

There is a reason there is a statute of limitation.

[Jtels2593]

Re: dealers suck

Of course it's going to raise the price of cars tremendously. Not only would they be having to warranty cars for 20, 30 or even 50 years or longer, you are opening a door for them to be liable for any litigation for as long as any car they build is on the road.

A car dealer can be held liable for certain number of years after new because there is an expected reliability of the product over a given period of time.

Do you really think a manufacturer should be sued for large sums of money because a dry rotted 30 year old wire on an air bag doesn't function.

There is a reason there is a statute of limitation.

I never once mention anything about suing anyone. The part should at least be replaced. Perhaps a lifetime warranty is a bit outrageous, so I would like to change my stance on this discussion and say that those parts should at least be warrantied to 20 years/200k miles. Is that better? I'm taking a shot in the dark here by saying that 99.9% of all vehicles produced will not likely have problems with safety features during that time frame. It's obvious to me that a few year old car should not experience problems such as faulty air bags or seat belts. If so, the car should not have a chance in hell of becomming registered to drive on the road. Older vehicles without airbags are exempt of course..

[A fireman]

Re: dealers suck

ok for one the need for airbags is over rated. I am a professional firefighter ( hence the name) and an emergency medical tech. in 99/100 wrecks I run the airbag dose nothing or makes the problem worse. I have sen the reports of firefighters killed by an un-deployed airbag that wen off while extricating a patient. Now back to the current discussion, insuring any computer part will last for 20 years is far to long. The silicone used in making the parts is really only good for 10 years. Also a lot of people add electronics to these cars and in doing so re-route the flow of power causing stress on these boards so failure should be expected. Instead of a warranty make the parts affordable so when you need to get it fixed its not more than the car is worth. Warranties do drive the price of parts and cars up because they have to make batches for no cost to the customer so it is put on everything else. Also an idea for GM give the option of a 5pt harness on both front seats on new sports cars like the new camaro and vette's and remove the airbags. A 5pt is safer and would cost about the same as the full new airbag system

[Mogobs30th]

Re: dealers suck

As for the $10-15k cost of performing such tasks, I'm not sure how you drummed up those figures. I would like to know how many vehicles per year experience problems with faulty seat belts and/or air bag systems.. probably not many. As high as new vehicle prices have become in recent years, they should come with all kinds of warranties! Also, please pardon what may be ignorant to some, but if safety equipment warranties somehow drove up the price of new vehicles by $10-15k, then it would be a good time to cut some outrageous and undeserved UAW benefits in order to bring that cost down.

UAW has made concessions recently after GM filed bankruptcy. What you're asking for is unfeasible. Unlimited lifetime warranty on safety parts is simply outrageous. Even a 20 year 200k mile warranty on said parts is unfeasible.

I think instead of offering a 20 year, 200,000 mile warranty the consumer should accept responsibility of what they're buying. If their paranoia is so overwhelming that they can't help but waste time thinking about a faulty part, they should take it in and have it checked.

I find it insulting that you ask the UAW to sacrifice their well being help solve your overwhelming sense of fear and paranoia of a part you may or may not know is working correctly. If you've bought the car without checking into this, then personally, that's your problem. Getting into a car in the first place is a slight risk, and being that we are only human, we can only design, build, test, and sell a car that we can assume with as much knowledge as possible to be as safe as possible. There really are no guarantees when you're 140 or 150 lb body is sitting in a 2 ton or more piece of machinery. A warranty is just that, a piece of paper that means **** if you're in an accident and the part doesn't work right. It isn't going to save your life, all its going to do is open a door of litigation for you, which is IMHO a dishonorable act. If you bought the car and the stuff wasn't working, and you didn't bother to check, thats on you. If you checked it, and it worked when you bought it, and doesn't work now, its STILL on you. You bought the car ASSUMING that things will have normal wear and tear.

Best option I can tell you is if you're that bi-polar about a part on your car, then walk. You assume the responsibility when you get behind the wheel to drive AND maintain the car. Its not up to the dealer, UAW, or the manufacturer to hold your hand.