3.4 vs 3.8 how much of a difference?

[MustangEater8251]

My times are not all over the place...

guys with bigger mods are faster near stock 3.8Ls with 3.08s are running 16 flat area.

Florida known for bad ETs?
My car seems to have done fine, friends stock 6-speed ls1 convertable ran 13.3s stock. Shane is deep in the 13s with juice and lots of bolt ons.

People have normal, if not better times then average, except for 3.8Ls by your standards.

[BATMAN]

Depends on the engine and how it was built at the factory. I am sure a strong 3.4 that was built well could beat a 3.8 that has problems and wasn't built strong.

[Magnus]

Eric, your argument is extremely 3.4 biased. All the 3.4's and LS1's run good #'s down there but the 3.8's crawl.

I don't care if you have 3.08 gear in a bone stock 96 3.8, you should be faster than 16.0!

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Magnus:
Eric, your argument is extremely 3.4 biased. All the 3.4's and LS1's run good #'s down there but the 3.8's crawl.

I don't care if you have 3.08 gear in a bone stock 96 3.8, you should be faster than 16.0!<hr></blockquote>

Ouch...

[Magnus]

That really wasn't meant as a dig..

But seriousely..

When tealv6 came to GLD to race, our worst track in the midwest.. He was running low 16's.. I was running high 14's. This was almost 2 years ago.

When SixVi6 and I ran at US41 over a year ago.. I was running 14.4's NA and he was running those #'s on the gun. NA he was turning in high 15's to low 16's.

You know.. unless yoru 3.8 friends are racing in full TANK WEIGHT, or have dirty air filters... either their cars just suck or they need some driving tips.

A 3.8 should be able to walk a 3.4 easily, just like LS1's walk 3.8's.

[Magnus]

For more example, look at the timeslips page:
http://timeslips.firebirdv6.com

The fastest 4 NA 3.8's are practiclly identical to the fastest 4 power adder 3.4's.

Now look at the Slowest 100+ NA 3.8's.. those pratically emulate the NA 3.4 table.

There are only 4 NA 3.8's slower than 16.0... 3 of those being AT 16.0, and the slowest one being a 16.3.

Minus the 16.3 ET, the second slowest 3.8 is faster than the 9'th quickest NA 3.4.

Now, this isn't a dig against 3.4's.. If we compared 5.7's to 3.8's, it could probably look just like the above table with 3.8's replaced with LS1 and 3.4's replaced with 3.8.

[OnixV6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Magnus:
A 3.8 should be able to walk a 3.4 easily, just like LS1's walk 3.8's.<hr></blockquote>

you must mean, "just like LS1's walk LT1's". ;)

[Magnus]

I guess that makes more sense..

[MustangEater8251]

granted I will agree that fastest people are 3.8Ls.

But this whole thread is talking about the average stock 3.8L, which is why I bring up the average 3.8L with 3.08s...


sure the slowest guy on the list is like a 16.3 for 3.8Ls, but as others say to me all the time, that list is not the bible, according to that list only 15 3.8L a4s with 3.08s have ever run there car, that is not even 1/4 of the list. There are more out there, hang out in the drag racing section and see what is times are posted there...

10.2 in the 1/8th I would consider that aroudn a 16 flat in a 3.8L 1/4
http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ulti...&f=10&t=001168

Stuck at 16.2
http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ulti...&f=10&t=001152

15.9 in 5-speed(florida)
http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ulti...&f=10&t=001157

THere are more people then you think with a4 w/3.08s that are stuck around 16s.

I am not saying all 3.8Ls are and that 3.08s isn't a big handicap I am just saying to the original person of this thread the average stock a4 3.8L w/ 3.08(most common 3.8L) runs about a 16 flat. So to beat the average stock 3.8L you need to run abotu a 16.

Don't worry magnus we all know the 3.8L is god.

[Magnus]

You can't say that you have to run a 16 flat. 3.4's have 3.23 gear.. so if you raced taht 3.08 3.8 the same day as the 3.4 3.23 gear, the 3.8 car SHOULD BE at least .5 seconds faster... and if its not, then something is wrong.

I'd say 95-97 3.8's are mostly 3.08 gear, 98's and 99's an even mix and 00+'s mostly 3.42 gear.

a 3.42 gear 3.8 should be .4 faster than a 3.08 gear 3.8

[MustangEater8251]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Magnus:
Eric, your argument is extremely 3.4 biased. All the 3.4's and LS1's run good #'s down there but the 3.8's crawl.

I don't care if you have 3.08 gear in a bone stock 96 3.8, you should be faster than 16.0!<hr></blockquote>


I am not saying they crawl... I even listed faster guys with mods...

Not directed to you Magnus..

but am I the only one that thinks a A4 3.8L w/ 3.08s is in the very high 15s, low 16 category? I honestly thought this was common.

I know I tend to be 3.4L biased but this doesn;t seem to be the case, just stating times for 3.8 then asked if weather or elevation is a problem, so list times for other cars and no problems. I agree weather can be really bad here at times but most the time its good for racing.

[CamaroL32]

I think part of the reason we don't see as many "fast" 3.4's is because the majority of them are owned by people that didn't want to invest that much in a car in the first place. Lets face it, most 3.4's are dirt cheap, and they're bought by people who weren't looking to modify them. (I didn't even consider it that much when I bought the car, i just wanted a camaro) Now lets look at the 3.8, they are more expensive (newer cars) so it is safe to say their owners have a little more money to throw around.

And that bit about 3.8's walking 3.4's like an LS1 leaves a 3.8 is total b.s. Every 3.8 I've raced (even with just the intake and exhaust) isn't that big of a god. :rolleyes:

[Ryan94V6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Magnus:
I even recomend 3.8 engine swaps to those 3.4's that want to do heads/cam.. For the same price you can have a stock engine that will go faster than your modified 3.4 [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

So your saying If I built my 3.4L up with heads/cam/rockers/ect. with my mods in the sig that I wouldnt be able to beat a 3.8L!?!

I can already beat some 3.8's as is. If I were to add heads/cam/ect. with my mods in sig then I would probly whoop up on the majority 3.8's

[ May 17, 2003: Message edited by: Ryan94V6 ]</p>

[TurboKillaZ]

not all 3.8 are fast,so say what ya wan't

[Magnus]

MOST 3.8's on the stret with 3.08 gears are probaly 16 second cars.. reason being owners have tons of crap in the car, and probably a horrid *** intake system.

A decent breathing intake and a clean car with 3.08's SHOULD be high 15's..

As for a 3.4 heavily modded, yea you might woop on stock 3.8's. But you should be pretty even with a 3.8 that has 3.42 gears and intake work.

Most of the V6's you find on the street, or those slow peeps at the track really don't care about ET. They have 300 lbs of stuff in their car, don't change the fluids religiousely and probably haven't cleaned their air filter in 25K miles.

To site an exampe, Matt aka Epic has a 96 3.8 up here. He has full power everything, leather seats, stereo, the works.. HEAVY car.. He has intake, exhaust and 3.42's.. With a air filter that hasn't been cleaned in 20K miles, that was so horribly dirty he couldn't break the tires loose, he ran 15.6. Now with a clean air filter I bet his car is a 15.3 car. He can now spin the tires no problem.

Epics car probably is one of the best representations of the average joe's 3.8... that's not concerned with the best ET, and yet it still runs pretty decent.