Any results from Aquatune dynos?

[DEE97GTP]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Deuce Bigs:
oxygen is extremely flammable<hr></blockquote>

Actually, that is incorrect IIRC. 100% oxygen is not flammable. Combustion is oxygen interacting with something. If it is 100% O2, then there is nothing for the oxygen to "burn" or interact with. Ever light a match in a vaccum or no oxygen?

Hows that for a chemistry lesson. A subject which I dearly hated. I tried to absorb as little as possible. :D

BTW Deuce, I agree with your statements except that one! ;)

DEE

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: DEE97GTP ]</p>

[Deuce Bigs]

eh, semantics. yes you're right there is no actual equation for the combustion of oxygen by itself. bastard. ;) j/k i changed the first statement but you knew what i meant. [img]tongue.gif[/img] for all intents oxygen isn't technically flammable but you need it to make other things. happy? ;)

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Deuce Bigs ]</p>

[eurekav6bird]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> water is the perfect combustible? cause that's what h20 is. have you tried to light water lately?
my point is it's the oxygen doing all the work. oxygen (with very little to interact with)is extremely flammable. ask your chemistry teacher. oxygen is what keeps a flame burning. when a flame runs out of oxygen it goes out. these are basics you have to understand. go stand in a room of mostly oxygen. besides getting high from it light a match. you'll be dead really quick. the room will turn into a huge fireball. go watch backdraft. the reason the fire comes shooting out is the introduction of oxygen. nitrogen is one of reasons when the first caveman made fire all the oxygen in the world didn't ignite. if you're talking about hydrogen/oxygen being the perfect combustible i'm guessing you're trying to talk about cold fusion in which case a conventional four-stroke engine model does not work. it's a completely different idea.
go read some chemistry books about nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, cold fusion, and such and we can talk more. no offense but you have some basics to learn first. those systems can be used in our cars. prolly won't hurt much, but it also won't help much. unless you wanna talk abou thte
<hr></blockquote>

Had the earth's air been pure oxygen at the time of the caveman, nothing new or extraordinary would have happened. The same principles would have applied then as they do now. A fire needs three things in order to burn: fuel, heat, and oxygen. The air wouldnt just have burst into some big fireball. The only fuel was the logs and once the logs were turned to ash, there would be no more fire. Granted, in an atmosphere of pure oxygen, the logs would have burned pretty fast, but thats about it.

Cold fusion has never been accomplished, is considered by the scientific community to be impossible.

Hydrogen is very capable of being used as a fuel for engines. The only thing keeping them from production really, well is finding a way to contain hydrogen in a small space under high pressures without exploding. Hydrogen is also a very clean burning source of fuel. Hydrogen is the only common fuel that is not bound to carbon, and therefore would limit the amount of carbon deposits, leaving cleaner oil and longer engine life. Hydrogen also packs more chemical energy than than any other fuel source pound for pound and is also more efficient.

Theres really not much to Nitrogen in this argument.

Most water injection systems claim to reduce temperatures inside the engine to allow for better combustion and denser air. This is what all you guys strive for anyway all the time, so why is it so bad when someone wants to try it. Most of you have lower temp thermostats and fan switches and CAI's, so this cant hurt to try. Its also claimed to reduce the amount of fuel being dumped into the cylinders to cool the pistons and all. With the water being used to cool the engine, less fuel would need to be dumped and wasted, which can only be a good thing. I really dont see anything bad coming from this system, its just how well it can perform for its money, and well soon see.

[strobhen]

Ok... lets clear some things up first...

I'm going to repeat what everyone else had already said and say oxygen is by no means flammable. It is the medium in which things burn. So any fire in that 100% oxygen room would completely depend on what was burning to not run out of feul.

An explosion is a big increase in pressure very quickly. That would only happen if you misted something into that room, thereby increasing its surface area for that reaction a lot, and when someone lights a match, that would explode, or at least appear to because the reaction would go so quickly. Example -- gas & gas fumes. You light gas, it burns. You light gas fumes they explode.

Next, everyone needs to get fission & fusion off their minds. Fission is splitting an atom, not a bond between atoms, the actual atom. Fusion is combining two atoms, which the sun does. Breaking the bond between hydrogen & oxygen is not a nuclear reaction.

What we are talking about here is the breaking of an ionic bond. H20 = 2 hydrogen atoms & 1 oxygen atom. The hydrogen atoms have a charge of +1 (It has one less electron than normal, a hydrogren Ion), and the oxygen a charge of -2 (it has two more electrons than normal, an Oxygen Ion). This is an extremely strong bond that although is possible to break, I doubt aquatune is doing it.

If you do want to break it, electrolysis would be your best bet. If I remember correctly, you can do it like this, get a battery and a bowl of water. Sprinkle a little salt in that water & stir to make sure it is good & conductive (pure water does *not* conduct electricity, it must have another ion dissloved in it. Most water out there does have something dissolved in it, so it is conductive, however distilled water would not be conductive). Now, put in the negative & positive wires, and I'm pretty sure you'll see a lot of bubbles coming up from one of the electrodes. That is a very flammable mix of hydrogen & oxygen. If it doesn't work, don't scream, because I'm going by memory here, you might need differing metals in the water (oxidation reduction reaction, which I believe pulls oxygen out of the water & releases hydrogen gas).

I still don't think aquatune is breaking that bond. I also don't think aquatune is going to help hp much, I again ask you to look at their very own dyno chart, ignore the Max Power reading & actually read the graph, compare it with the first one and you will see that the car gained maybe 1 hp. The max power is read off the torque scale instead of the hp scale.

Also, injecting a hydrogen/oxygen mix into your engine would be even harder on the engine than nitrous, though probably not harmful if you did it in small enough amounts.

Oh, and Oxygen & Hydrogen is pretty much the best we can do with combustion. Water seperated into its parts is a good way to burn things. However, when you combine two atoms in a chemical reaction, you get something completely different. Combining oxygen & a very flammable gas makes water. Combining a poisonous gas (chlorine) and a metal that literally can burn in water because it is so reactive (sodium) makes table salt.

So please, enough with the bad chemistry [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Later

[DEE97GTP]

here is a discussion going on right now,

http://www.clubgp.com/forum/topic.as...in&whichpage=1

DEE

[Deuce Bigs]

i'm bad at explainations which is why after trying to do my own i brought in the backdraft example(kinda hoping everyone has seen the movie so they can picture it). in a backdraft there is a fuel ready to be burned and no oxygen so the fire kinda kills itself until the reintroduction of oxygen where there will be a very short(time wise) but large explosion like fireball because the fuel all of a sudden has oxygen. i'm trying to say that if the atmosphere wasn't so heavy on things like nitrogen(which makes up a large portion of our atmosphere there are other things in there too, however) things would pretty much explode in flame very quickly and other things near it would catch on fire very very easily. my point on the nitrous was it gives the engine more power because there is a larger ratio of oxygen to other gases in which is injected to the cylinder where there are things like fuel to burn. now ya get it?

i think my problem was all my things assumed the reader knew a fuel of some sort like in your engine the fuel is going to be mixed in the cylinder was there. i'm not trying to say oxygen would spontaneously combust.

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Deuce Bigs ]</p>

[bu-bye]

I'm no long in school, yet I can't help but feel that I am back in class. . Guys it has to do something. They would not be around if it just blow up customers engines after every sale. I'm not joining the fight here I just think we could be spending time writing about better things. This topic has been beet black and blue. Let it die. I would rather spend my money on better things. Tell me, are there any of you really wanting to buy this? The gains don't seem that great anyway. You could spend it on something safer and still get the same results. Let talk about something we all can agree on. Who likes cars? I do, I do :D

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: bu-bye ]</p>

[strobhen]

The atmoshpere is about 60-70% nitrogen & the rest a mix of carbon dioxide & oxygen, and a bunch of other gases (like pollution).

Very little helium or hydrogen in the air because it is so light -- it literally floats off the planet. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, the "void" of space is actually filled with hydrogen spaced *very* far apart. Far enough that if you had oxygen & lit a match, the universe wouldn't explode. :D

I'm not going to pretend I know exactly what water in the combustion chamber of the car does -- but I do believe the increase in mpg & lower emmisions. Perhaps there is less space for fuel, water might even help clean it. In smokestacks of large industrial plants, they mist water to catch a lot of pollutants. But this is water, not water vapor like what should be in the engine, so I dunno.

I just know, aquatune says it themselves even though they wont admit to it, it's not going to do anything to a n/a car. To a car running 18lbs of boost, it might do a lot. As liquids go, water is just about second to none for absorbing heat. If the water was misted in and still a liquid, then evaporated in the manifold, that would go a long way to reducing the intake temps. If it was sprayed in as a gas, it wouldn't do much.

[Arctc Wolf]

It takes a lot of "focused" energy to break molecular bonds such as that in water. There is a lot of energy in the combustion chamber when you ignite the mixture, but it is not focused enough on the water molecules to break them apart and use the hydrogen for fuel, maybe a few break apart out of the millions, but that is probly it. Aquatune is basically a tuning instrument used to raise an engine's detonation threshold. Since moisture tends to retard explosion and flame, it is usefull when dealing w/ engines being pushed to their limits such as forced induction, high compression, lots of nitrous, or extremely lean conditions to achieve higher fuel mileage. Yes, the water will lower intake temps a bit, therefore achieveing a denser intake charge and more hp/tq, but not very much. Alcohol has a lower evaporation point than water and therefore takes in more heat, and acheiving an even denser intake charge. On top of that, alcohol burns hotter than gasoline, so the increased heat energy produces some power as well. No, you will not see large gains from this by itself, maybe a few hp and possibly a 1-2 mpg increase, tops. Doing this in conjunction w/ advancing spark timing, leaning the engine out to stoichiometeric (14.7:1), adding a sc or turbo, or raising compression will get you a more sizeable gain. You see this more in foced induction cars because when running w/ boost, ignition timing may have to be retarded and more rich air/fuel ration may be needed. using water/alcohol injection allows more tuning flexibility, allowing timing to be brought back to normal and/or a leaner air/fuel ratio can be used. In some cases, you can also run a higher boost level, higher compression, or less octane required to prevent detonation. Hope all this helps.

[Silver97Camaro]

Hey viper98885 any dyno numbers yet? I haven't heard anything about it in a long time.