Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

[3.8L Strong]

I have installed a Chevy 3.8 3800 series ll V-6 into my 2002 PT Cruiser. The project has taken me just over a year. I'm now trying to start the engine after a year and I'm having start up problems. I have hooked up an oil pressure gauge as well as a fuel pressure gauge. At cranking I have 60 psi on the oil pressure gauge and the fuel pressure gauge peaks at 56 psi. When I crank the engine over, after a minute or so, I see that gas is dripping out from the exhaust pipe connection just aft of the catalytic converter. I'm wondering if the fuel injectors are leaking internally. The engine only has 5,000 miles on it, however, perhaps because it sat for over a year without running that the fuel injectors may have gone bad. Any suggestions as to how to troubleshoot this problem? I know there is spark, because 2 weeks ago I attempted to start the engine, this was without my exhaust being completed. All I had was the headers installed. Anyway, when I attempted to start the engine, it fired up for a second and died out. However, the unspent fuel ignited and dripped out from the header collector in flames. That's why I decided to complete the exhaust before attemping to start the engine up again. The question is why is the gas dripping out from the exhaust so much? Appears excessive! Could the injectors be the problem? The leak down test was satisfactory. When the gauge peaked out at 56 psi, it held the 5 psi value for more than 10 minutes. Any suggestions? If anyone is interested in viewing my project, you can check it out at this link: http://ptcruiserworld.tenmagazines.c...ry.ten?id=3504
Thanks for your support, Tommy.

[gugdathug3]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

wow, is this the 3.8L engine going in?.. http://ptcruiserworld.tenmagazines.c...Gold/85453.jpg
i cant really tell because of the painted block.. it looks like it tho (looking at the alternator lol).

I dont know how to help you, im not that knowledged enough when it comes to engine problems. I wish you luck tho with this rare and unheard of project.

[v6mOtOrhEAdftOp]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Just my .02, but I suggest replacing injectors with larger ones. After this, i'd check your gaskets and make sure they are sealed. If you can, post a small vid of you trying to start it. you may not be getting the crank to turn over, while gas is still entering the chamber, which could also be a big problem. Just post a video, with sound and the camera pointed directly over the engine, about 3 meters high. We'll do our best to help

[terminaldegree]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

I would suggest posting this over in the GM forum at www.flatratetech.com
The forum is moderated by several GM techs who may be able to help troubleshoot the problem.

I didn't read your other thread, but if the motor's stock, why would you want to up the injector size?

[v6mOtOrhEAdftOp]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

I think I misread, for some reason i thought he said somethign about power adders. Yea there's no reason to get larger injectors unless you are going to want to run very rich w/o power adders. Ty for catching my mistake terminal

[Coriya71]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Try hooking a noid light to the injectors. It sounds like when your trying to fire it up, the injectors are not cycling on and off and just staying open flooding the engine which causes it not to start and gas in the exhaust. It would pass the leak down test because once the pump primes and keeps the pressure, the rest of the igntion is not cycling (spark and fuel injectors) keeping the injectors closed and keeping pressure.

[97burnout]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

why would you do that to a pt cruiser dude.... its cool though. sounds like a gasket to me

[3.8L Strong]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Hey Guy's, thanks for your response and support. I have been running alot of test since I posted this thread. At this point it looks like the fuel injectors are stuck in the open position like Coriya71 suggested. The gas is really pouring out from the exhaust pipe connection under the mid section of the car. To add to the problem, I rechecked for spark. Now, there is no spark at the plug wires when the engine is being cranked over. There was spark two weeks ago when the unspent fuel ignited in flames coming out from the header connection. Everything else is ok, the oil pressure is at 60 psi and the fuel pressure is at 56 psi and holds a 5 psi value longer than 10 minutes. I also disconnected the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator and turned the ignition switch on to see if the fuel was leaking through the vacuum line into the intake manifold. No fuel came out, so like I said everything is pointing towards the fuel injectors. As far as the no spark is concerned, I will now be troubleshooting that as well. If anyone has suggestions on how to troubleshoot the no spark condition, I'm all ears. I think I will be posting these problems on the flatratetech forum site as terminaldegree suggested. The more help the better. I would like to take a video of the engine turning over, however, with the amount of gas pouring out of the exhaust, I just can't take that chance right now. One fire was more than enough for me. Sorry, I can't support you with that request. I really appreciate all of your support. Any other ideas just post them and I will check it out. If anyone prefers to email a private message to me, here is my email address: kamaki8@hawaii.rr.com. Thank you, Tommy.

[Coriya71]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Tommy, are you able to access the OBDII port to see if your throwing any codes?

[3.8L Strong]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Tommy, are you able to access the OBDII port to see if your throwing any codes?

Yes, I can do that as long as I don't have to crank over the engine. I want to refrain from cranking over the engine right now due to the amount of fuel leaking out of the exhaust. I'll do that to see what codes pop up. I'll get back to you on that. I was just reading an aritcle on no spark conditions with electronic ignitions. The two problems I'm having may just be related. The last sentence of the article says alot. Here is the article:

Description and Operation

The ignition control module performs the following functions:

It powers the dual crankshaft position sensor internal circuits.
It supplies the voltage signals that each respective Hall effect switch pulses to ground to generate the CKP Sync and CKP 18X signal pulses.
It determines the correct ignition coil firing sequence, based on how many CKP 18X signal transitions occur during a CKP Sync pulse. This coil sequencing occurs at start-up. After the engine is running, the module remembers the sequence, and continues triggering the ignition coils in proper sequence.
It determines whether or not the crankshaft is rotating in the proper direction, and cuts off fuel delivery and spark to prevent backfiring if reverse rotation is detected.
It sends the 3X reference and 18X reference signals to the PCM. The PCM determines engine RPM from these signal. These signals used by the PCM to determine crankshaft speed for Ignition Control (IC) spark advance calculations. The falling edge of each 3X reference and 18X reference signal pulse occurs at a specific time in relation to top dead center of any cylinder stroke. The 3X reference signal sent to the PCM by the ignition control module is an ON - OFF pulse occurring 3 times per crankshaft revolution. This is neither the CKP Sync pulse nor the 18X crankshaft position sensor pulse, but both of these are required before the ignition control module will generate the 3X reference signal. The ignition control module generates the 3X reference signal by an internal divide-by-6 circuit. This divider circuit divides the CKP 18X signal pulses by 6. The divider circuit is enabled, or ready to begin dividing, only after it receives a crankshaft position sensor CKP Sync pulse. After beginning, the divider circuit does not need the Sync pulses to continue operating. If either the CKP 18X or CKP Sync pulses are missing at start-up, the ignition control module will not generate 3X reference or 18X reference signal pulses and no fuel injector pulses will occur.

[CHEVYINSIDE]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

well i'm not going by the book here but i would first start by pulling the fuse for the fuel pump .check to see if your getting spark at all wires . you might have an icm module controller failer . the other thing that could be wrong is you had a crank sensor fail. Like thay said above see if there is any codes being thrown .Sounds like there is no spark somewhere

[3.8L Strong]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Yes, I re-checked for spark. None! So, now I will be checking to see if any trouble codes came up, I'm sure they are there. I will then start troubleshooting the no spark condition. I will be looking at the ignition control module and crank sensor. If anyone knows of a specific method for troubleshooting these two items, I'll be glad to hear it. I'll keep you informed of my progress. Thank you for your support, Tommy.

[BobbyZ72]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

are you using the correct key, with the resister chip in it?

[CHEVYINSIDE]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

the crank sensor can be checked by looking for an rpm reading in the scan tool . it should show atleast the cranking rpm . i dont think it's the vehicle anti theft because that shuts down the fuel pump. i think i would start with that first .The icm ussally doesnt completely fail. most of the time i've seen that it gets spark on a few cylinders . and the only way to truely check it is replace it with a known good.

[3.8L Strong]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Here is an update for the latest test done. I removed all 6 wire connectors to the fuel injectors. Turned the ignition switch to the on position, there is voltage at all 6 wire connectors. I then tested each fuel injector with a pulse test. None of them displayed any drop in fuel pressure while pulsing the two terminals of the fuel injectors. I assume this means that the injectors are stuck in the wide open position which would explain why the gas is getting into my exhaust pipe and ending up on the garage floor. By the way, I don't have to crank the engine to get the fuel to leak out of my exhaust, all I have to do is turn the ignition switch to the on position, and in a few seconds, I can smell the gas leaking onto the garage floor. I also hooked up an OBDll code reader to the Chrysler and GM data link connectors. The GM computer does not display any codes, however the following Monitor Icons are blinking off and on: (C) = Catalyst Monitor, (EV) = Evaporative System Monitor, (O) = Oxygen Sensor Monitor, (OH) = Oxygen Heater Monitor, and (E) = Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR Monitor. Is this normal for the non-start type of problem I'm experiencing? The Chrysler computer displays these two codes: P0-123 and P-1193. So, what would all of this suggest to you? Also, I still need to troubleshoot the no spark problem. This one has me really worried. Thank you, Tommy.