Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

[CHEVYINSIDE]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

if the injectors where stuck open you would have little or no fuel perssure .Because all you fuel would be running out the injectors . what kind of computer are you using to look at the pcm ?i think someone said before i would check injector function with a noid light .

[3.8L Strong]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

if the injectors where stuck open you would have little or no fuel perssure .Because all you fuel would be running out the injectors . what kind of computer are you using to look at the pcm ?i think someone said before i would check injector function with a noid light .

I would have to purchase a noid light. Never had one or used one before, don't even know what it looks like. The thing that bothers me about the injectors is when I pulsed them, the fuel pressure did not drop at all. How is the gas getting into the exhaust pipe. It has to be through the injectors into the intake manifold, into the cylinders and out the exhaust, wouldn't you agree with that? Not sure I understand your question about what type of computer I'm using to look at the PCM? I have not checked the PCM yet. I will be checking on the crankshaft sensor and how it was wired. I sent the Chrysler computer and engine harness as well as the GM computer and engine harness to a company in San Antonio Texas. They programed both computers and fabricated one engine harness out of the two that I sent to them. Now the two computers plug into one engine harness. The GM computer takes care of everything engine related, and the Chrysler computer takes care of everything else it normally did, except for the engine related items. I'm just wondering if the cranksensor wire was wired wrong. I will check on it to make sure it is wired correctly. I also need to test the cranksensor to see if it is working properly. I'm thinking of removing the fuel rail completely from the engine and engine compartment. Then run an extended fuel line from the engine compartment to the fuel rail away from the car. Place the fuel rail in a pan and turn the ignition switch to the on position to see what happens. If the fuel starts flowing through the fuel injectors, without pulsing them, wouldn't that suggest that the fuel injectors are bad? I just thought of something. Perhaps before I remove the fuel rail I should disconnect all the enjector wires from all 6 injectors, then crank the engine over to see if the fuel still leaks into the exhaust. If the fuel injectors are working properly, the gas should not leak out of the exhaust pipe under this condition, correct? Does that sound like a plan?

[3.8L Strong]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Here is the latest. I disconnected all 6 wire connectors from the injectors. Turned the ignition switch to the on position for about 6 seconds. Turned off the switch, and turned it back on for another 6 seconds. I didn't see any gas leaking out of the exhaust pipe like it did previously, however, I do have a gas leak somewhere above my gas tank. I just removed the gas tank a few days ago to get rid of the old gas that was in the tank. Perhaps while re-installing it, I may have pinched a line or something. Now I need to remove the tank again to see what the problem is before continuing on with troubleshooting. In any case I should have seen gas leaking through the exhaust pipe connection, and did not. After I get the gas tank leak repaired, I'll crank the engine over to give it a real good test to see if the gas leaks at the exhaust pipe connection. Now, I'm beginning to wonder if the leaking gas is just unspent gas due to the no spark condition. Does anyone know, with a no spark condition, is the fuel pump suppose to cut off for safety reasons? Well for right now, my priority has to be to get the fuel tank leak repaired before I do any other testing. I did order a Noid light tester. I will be picking that up tomorrow afternoon. Looks like a pretty neat tool to have. I'll be glad to hear your comments and suggestions about my current status. Thank you for your support, Tommy.

[CHEVYINSIDE]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

well as you probably know already . the noid light will flash any time the fuel injector is pulsed . it's just an easy test tool just plug it in and go . i think the fuel problem is caused by the no spark condition . i dont think it's the injectors like i said before . if it holds pressure they arnt leacking . it means the computer is telling it to turn on . i meant what kind of scan tool are you using to read the on -board computer?you need to look at the pcm and see if it see's a crank signal . i dont think it does . The computer is sending fual as if itr was going to start .

[3.8L Strong]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

well as you probably know already . the noid light will flash any time the fuel injector is pulsed . it's just an easy test tool just plug it in and go . i think the fuel problem is caused by the no spark condition . i dont think it's the injectors like i said before . if it holds pressure they arnt leacking . it means the computer is telling it to turn on . i meant what kind of scan tool are you using to read the on -board computer?you need to look at the pcm and see if it see's a crank signal . i dont think it does . The computer is sending fual as if itr was going to start .

I have a big problem that just developed with the gas tank. I thought perhaps I pinched a line while re-installing the tank. It is not that at all. I removed the tank again today and found that the gas was leaking out from the breather element. It is also leaking out from the leak detection pump which is tied into the breather element and evap canistor. Specifically it is leaking through the wire connector terminal location of the leak detection pump. This really scares me. I have not had a chance to inspect the evap canistor which may also be saturated with fuel. How can this happen? Is it possible that this is happening because there is no spark, and that all of this gas is unspent gas, which is leaking out of my exhaust pipe and returning to the gas tank through the return line, due to the no spark condition? What should I do first? I can't even think straight anymore! It's unbelievable how many things can go wrong with a fuel injection system. It's wonderful when it is working properly, and overwelming when it doesn't! To pick up the trouble codes I'm using the INNOVA 3100 Digital OBDll Code Reader. I'm not very familair with it's use, however, I'm not sure if it is able to pick up the RPM, I don't think so. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Tommy.

[Coriya71]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Well I hope you get that gas tank problem fixed. As far as your ignition control module goes, you can take it to Autozone if you have them where you live and they can test it for you.

[3.8L Strong]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Well I hope you get that gas tank problem fixed. As far as your ignition control module goes, you can take it to Autozone if you have them where you live and they can test it for you.

Yes, I sure hope I can find out what is happening with my gas tank system. No, we don't have an AutoZone here in Hawaii, at least I'm not aware of one.
Thank you for your support, Tommy.

[CHEVYINSIDE]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

unfortuatly i don't know much about chysler products. i know most causes of fuel getting in the evep system overfilling the tank with fuel .did you hook up all the sending unit lines right . return to return , pressure to pressure . maybe you mixed the evap line with the return .
sorry i couldnt be much help .

[CHEVYINSIDE]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

oh , and i tryed to see if that scanner would read rpm but i think you going to have to find someone with a tech 2, snap-on , otc genisys or such . you need something to read rpm and other sensors . i think you have either a bad sensor or a missed connection

[3.8L Strong]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

oh , and i tryed to see if that scanner would read rpm but i think you going to have to find someone with a tech 2, snap-on , otc genisys or such . you need something to read rpm and other sensors . i think you have either a bad sensor or a missed connection

Yes, the crankshaft and cam sensors are tied into the ignition system. If either one is not working properly there will be a no spark condition, this also applies to the ignition control module itself, as well. The question is, is this no spark condition causing the gas to return to the gas tank through the return line and saturate (in this order) the vapor canister, leak detection pump and breather element. There is no way that the lines are mixed up. All 3 lines are of different sizes. The main feed pressure line is 5/16", the return line is 3/8" and the evap vacuum line is 1/4". I need to find out what is causing the gas to return through the return line in such a manner that it saturates the system at the gas tank. The return line actually connects to the vapor canister. It appears that the gas is entering the vapor canister, filling up in the canister then overflowing into the leak detector, from there it travels to the breather element and out of the breather element vents. These 3 items are all tied together with hoses and tubing. I wish there was a way I could post some pictures of the tank and these 3 items that are mounted to it. It would give you a better idea of what I'm talking about. The part that really has me worried is, the leak detection pump has a wire connector terminal on it, and when I removed the wire connector from that location, gas came pouring out through there. I can't begin to tell you what that feels like, watching the gas leak from that location. When I first planned this project, I had intensions of going with carburation. The only reason I went with fuel injections is because there were no intake manifolds for carburation for the Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 engine at that time. In fact, I still have not found any carburated intakes on the market for this particular 3.8 engine. It would have been so much easier to work with. There has to be someone out there who knows why this is happening. Thank you for your outstanding support, Tommy.

[shenanigans]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Just a stupid thing to check and double check...

are the wires hooked up to the right coils and right cylinders?

I saw check out the spark, maybe its just so much fuel because you are cranking and cranking and flooding it?

You could also maybe get some starter fluid, unhook the fuel pump and see if you can get it to start and fire off of that a little.(to see if the motor is getting flooded by too much gas)

[3.8L Strong]

Just a stupid thing to check and double check...

are the wires hooked up to the right coils and right cylinders?

I saw check out the spark, maybe its just so much fuel because you are cranking and cranking and flooding it?

You could also maybe get some starter fluid, unhook the fuel pump and see if you can get it to start and fire off of that a little.(to see if the motor is getting flooded by too much gas)

Yes, the wires were checked and rechecked. More recently I have not cranked over the engine that much, infact very little. The gas is returning to the gas tank through the return line, by just turning the ignition switch to the on position. Exactly how that is happening, I don't know. What would make the gas return to the gas tank by just turning the ignition switch to the on position? What fault is required to make that happen? If we can answer that question, we will find the answer. As I see it, there is only two ways the gas can return to the gas tank. The return line, or the evap vacuum line. Which is it, and why? It can't be the main feed line because I get fuel pressure on the gauge everytime I turn the ignition switch on. Not only that, the fuel pressure does hold a 5 psi value for longer than 10 minutes after the ignition switch is turned off. That's what makes it so puzzling. Keep them coming, we will find the answer sooner or later. I hope sooner. We also need to find out why there is no spark. Without the spark, no sence in spraying the starter fluid. I will try the starter fluid once I get the no spark problem resolved. By the way, for those who have not followed the progress from the start, the gas tank has been removed again. Thank you for your support, Tommy.

[3.8L Strong]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

We may have found the problem. We are dealing with 2 different fuel pressure regulators. The GM fuel pressure regulator is mounted on the fuel rail, and the PT Cruiser fuel pressure regulator is in the fuel tank mounted on the fuel pump module assembly. Talk about an oversight! Now, the question is, does one of them have to be disabled? I think so, and I think it would be the one from the PT Cruiser. I think they must be bucking each other. What do you think? Thank you, Tommy.

[CHEVYINSIDE]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Well i know that you should get fuel returning when you turn the key on . it's pressurizing the system and getting rid of the exxces.i would try to eliminate the regulator for the crusier first and see what happens . was there fuel in the oil?when you first droped the tank how much gas was in it?

[3.8L Strong]

Re: Chevy 3.8 3800 Series ll V-6 won't start

Well i know that you should get fuel returning when you turn the key on . it's pressurizing the system and getting rid of the exxces.i would try to eliminate the regulator for the crusier first and see what happens . was there fuel in the oil?when you first droped the tank how much gas was in it?

Yes, there was gas in the engine oil. I changed the engine oil and filter after I re-installed the tank the first time. Now, when I install the tank again, I will change the engine oil and filter again. The next time I install the gas tank, It will have a new vapor canistor and leak detection pump installed on it, and like you said, I may decide to disable the fuel pressure regulator in the tank, if it is possible and does not interfere with anything. I'm researching that possibility right now. Also, before I attempt to turn the ignition switch on the next time, I will attach a longer rubber fuel line from the return line of the GM fuel pressure regulator, to an area away from the engine compartment. It will be routed into a gas container to see if and how much gas is being sent back to the vapor canistor. When I removed the gas tank the first time there was 10 gals of gas in it. This second time I only put 5 gals of gas in it. Thank you for your support, Tommy.