HP Differences

[Ace]

What are the HP differences in the angled TB vs the stright TB, reg manifolds vs tublar manifolds and 17# injectors vs 22# injectors? I know there is a difference or they wouldnt have changed the design(if it aint broke, dont fix it). Im sure the motivation of the changes where based on better gas milage as apposed to power but the fact of the matter is if you make an engine more efficient you make it more powerful. Im just trying yo get a rough HP number of what my 2000 3.8 produces. The 1995 3.8 was rated at 200 HP and with the improvments listed above the 2000 3.8 must put out more power. If not then there are some enginers that need to be flipping burgers.also what kind of difference is there in throttle response with electronic throttle controll vs throttle cable?

[Oi Bird V8]

Re: HP Differences

check out loochy88's site its got soem info by years on there for the cars... and each year has the hp numbers on there.. i dont think there was a diff i forget though read it awhile ago..but yeah look there..

[Ace]

Re: HP Differences

Cool thanks .You got the address for that site off hand?Oh never mind i found it. It didnt help me at all. It has all the years rated at 200hp.

[MrCoffee]

Re: HP Differences

how does switching out 17# injectors for 22# ones make the engine more fuel efficient? I think it ultimately came down to production cost saving. Changing minor things like that has no effect on HP.

The only reason people get headers is for louder sounding exhaust. The do little in terms of hp gain. So tubular ones versus reg one probably wont do too much either. And the injectors have no factor on hp output either because they are not being maxed out. The angle on the TB is minimal so it really has no effect on air flow. With all that added up you're talking 1-5 hp difference between the years if anything.

[Ace]

Re: HP Differences

how does switching out 17# injectors for 22# ones make the engine more fuel efficient? I think it ultimately came down to production cost saving. Changing minor things like that has no effect on HP.

Every one of thoes things i mentioned cost no less than the previous. In fact it would cost more to change a design and manufacture new parts of the same cost. Trust me the parts i mentioned where added for efficiency. I dont mean to be rude here but im not asking for anyones oppinion here im wondering if anyone has any documented info/numbers on this matter.Like 100 dyno #s on a 95 100 on a 98 and 100 on a 2000. If we could cind some statistics like this it would answer my question. But for now i guess any stock dyno numbers from these years would help.

[MrCoffee]

Re: HP Differences

you're keeping it in the mind set of just fbodies. With the greater use of the 3800 series II, making the parts more universal among the other platforms is a reason for lower cost. Think about how many parts we can use off of GTPs. TBs, infectors, MAF, and internals. They're superchaged which is probably (I'm assuming) why the use of larger injectors were used for our cars. Buying more/ producing more of a product does lower the cost. And the only design change was with the intake going from angle to straight, but thats a minor change.

you're looking for proof of something that shouldnt exist.

[Harrison]

Re: HP Differences

if you want to get really technical, not every 3.8 fbody has the same hp to begin with, whether it is before they made all those changes or not. I guaruntee if you take 10 stock fbody cars and dyno each, each one will be different. +/- 1-5hp also.

[Ace]

Re: HP Differences

you're keeping it in the mind set of just fbodies. With the greater use of the 3800 series II, making the parts more universal among the other platforms is a reason for lower cost. Think about how many parts we can use off of GTPs. TBs, infectors, MAF, and internals. They're superchaged which is probably (I'm assuming) why the use of larger injectors were used for our cars. Buying more/ producing more of a product does lower the cost. And the only design change was with the intake going from angle to straight, but thats a minor change.

you're looking for proof of something that shouldnt exist.

Actually i think the only other car that uses our engine is the Monecarlo all the others are fwd engines. Im not too sure what your saying about the injectors. And there was more than just the TB change all the things i listed where changed.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: HP Differences

Actually i think the only other car that uses our engine is the Monecarlo all the others are fwd engines. Im not too sure what your saying about the injectors. And there was more than just the TB change all the things i listed where changed.

Monte Carlo's aren't rear wheel drive. Only 2 North American cars with a GM RWD 3800 Series II engine between 1995 and 2002 were the Camaro and Firebird, don't think there are any others. But all 3800 Series II engines are virtually identical, below the intake manifolds (or supercharger), short of connecting rod differences between the L67/L32 (Series III) and the L36.

The one part of the car that controls the engine that you forgot to mention was the PCM. And although there were changes between the 1995 Cali engine and the 2000+ engines, they're wasn't enough to make a significant amount of difference, possibly because they were detuned to 200 HP, for reliability concerns.

[Ace]

Re: HP Differences

Monte Carlo's aren't rear wheel drive. Only 2 North American cars with a GM RWD 3800 Series II engine between 1995 and 2002 were the Camaro and Firebird, don't think there are any others. But all 3800 Series II engines are virtually identical, below the intake manifolds (or supercharger), short of connecting rod differences between the L67/L32 (Series III) and the L36.

The one part of the car that controls the engine that you forgot to mention was the PCM. And although there were changes between the 1995 Cali engine and the 2000+ engines, they're wasn't enough to make a significant amount of difference, possibly because they were detuned to 200 HP, for reliability concerns.

You know i never really looked into the new Monte Carlo's i had no idea they where fwd. That is a dissapointment. Thats like making a fwd firbird/camaro. Yea and like i said the intake is diff so it cant be compaired. The exaust masifolds arnt diff?.I also figured the detune thing thats why i asked the question on what the hp gains are from these things. I have an aftermarket tune so if there are advantages to gain im proly gaining them from the tune. But anyways I guess know one really has a def answer to this and im well aware that the #s will vary from car to car but there is an average. So from the help i gathered from your opinions im guessing about a 5 hp gain and i guess about the same tq. I have heard from many people not to worry about headers for performance because they dont provide enough gain over the tube mans for the price. Does this mean the 3800 doesnt respond very well to headers? If the tube mans give me a 1 1/2 hp gain and headers only give me 4 more than stock then that means the 3800 only gains 5 hp from headers. Is that about right or am i missing something here?