Hydrogen Injection?

[BobbyZ72]

Ive been seeing hydrogen generators on ebay claming to increase gas mileage up to 25%, any body know anything about this.. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HYDRO...33084046QQrdZ1 and this.. http://cgi.ebay.com/Hydrogen-Generat...QQcmdZViewItem

[ONLNTM5A]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

Save your money!!! I know about those things and I will post more about it shortly.

[ONLNTM5A]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

I have been researching that stuff since May of this year. That is what you call a “booster”, and what it does, is break down water into the 2 atoms of hydrogen and the 1 atom of oxygen, to create a gas known as hydroxy, by way of 12 volts DC electrolysis, and it usually includes some type of electrolye, like baking soda or lye, etc. So, it doesn’t just produce hydrogen, but the gas that it does produce, is very explosive! To make a long story short, that item on Ebay is one of many that is on the market, and they don’t work from what I have read on this forum:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hydroxy/

We (everyone on the Hydroxy forum) have all been experimenting with our own designs, and that design http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HYDRO...33084046QQrdZ1
is what beginners build to get a feel for the science. An actual working device is very elusive at this time, but many have claimed success. One person, Stanley Meyer
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/ supposedly produced a dune buggy that ran exclusively on water http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...92194168790800
He died mysteriously in 1998, from what is said to be some type of poisoning incident. He started working on this science back in the latter 70’s, and at one point, he was offered a billion dollars (true) by a Saudi group to cease any further involvement in the research and experimentation of water fuel science. After he died, his brother is said to have taken over the research. I have done some very basic experimenting myself, just for curiosity’s sake, and have found that the hydroxy gas that is produced from just water, baking soda and 12 volt DC electricity from a battery charger, is very volatile. I believe without a doubt, from my own experience, and from everything that I have read on the internet, that it is definitely possible to run an internal combustion engine on this hydroxy gas. Here is a video that I uploaded to Google of a very basic test where I lit the gas that was captured in soap bubbles:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...02218735780468

That is only baking soda and water and 12 volts from a battery charger. The basic problems to overcome in being able to run an engine on the hydroxy gas, or even give a substantial boost to gasoline fuel injection, is in producing enough of the hydroxy to be effective. Also, just allowing a stream of hydroxy gas into the intake of an engine, especially one that has electronic fuel injection, involves electronic controllers, and adjustments in timing, manipulation of oxygen sensors, etc., etc.- but - it can be done, and has been done. There are a lot of people now researching this science at this time, and more and more are joining in every day. There is plenty of information on the internet for research purposes, but for anyone interested, you may want to go to the forum that I mentioned http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hydroxy/
and do some reading.

Bruce

[CDNFB]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

Thanks for the great response Bruce. Very interesting reading.

I've done very little research into this so my questions are basic.
How do you seperate the oxygen atoms from the hydroxy?
I thought that when you apply the electricity to the electrolyte hydrogen was collected from one of the electrodes immersed in the water and oxygen was collected from the other?

I also heard that by injecting hydrogen into the intake of an engine running on gas, the emmissions can change dramatically for the better. I can only see that working if the amount of gas being inducted is reduced and replaced by the hydrogen (by the proper proportion) and maintaining the same engine power output.

[mwh27]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

I thought they had some device that was already available to tractor trailers.

It was said to increase fuel eff. by like %7, but cost $16k, which is justified by how much they drive.

Any links? or anyone else hear of this?

[Camaro Dom]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

they tested it on Mythbusters along with about 8 other things to increase fuel economy. none of 'em worked except for filtered veggie oil in a diesel.

[youngsc]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

I was waiting for someone to mention mythbusters. They proved that it could run on hydrogen but there is no real feasible or efficent setup currently available to see the benifits of it. Based on it's combustibility it would be real intresting to see how much performance you could realisticly and safely get out of hydrogen or hydroxy.

[ONLNTM5A]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

Thanks for the great response Bruce. Very interesting reading.

I've done very little research into this so my questions are basic.
How do you seperate the oxygen atoms from the hydroxy?
I thought that when you apply the electricity to the electrolyte hydrogen was collected from one of the electrodes immersed in the water and oxygen was collected from the other?

I also heard that by injecting hydrogen into the intake of an engine running on gas, the emmissions can change dramatically for the better. I can only see that working if the amount of gas being inducted is reduced and replaced by the hydrogen (by the proper proportion) and maintaining the same engine power output.

CDNFB,
Separating the hydrogen from the oxygen is not easy, but that question is probably the most asked question by newbies to the Hydroxy forum. From what I have read, it is somewhat difficult because what makes the process possible, is the closeness of the electrodes, and the reaction that they have to each other during electrolysis. Some have talked about putting a membrane between the electrodes to separate the gases, but I haven’t read of anyone successfully doing this. I am going to try an experiment with it at some point, but I don’t expect it to be very successful. You can see this illustration:


on this site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis

But that unit is using very expensive Platinum to make it happen.
The use of a “booster”, one that actually works, the emissions in theory, would dramatically improve. As far as emissions in a hydroxy only (no gasoline) system, the emissions are nothing but water, because the hydrogen and oxygen recombine after combustion.There are several water torch units available on the market. Here is a news report about a guy named Denny Klein, who has a water torch product, and is trying to get into the water fuel for cars business as well:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...UEL+FROM+WATER

[CDNFB]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

Well the unit the Mythbusters were using was a low yeild unit and could'nt possibly keep up with the consumption required by the engine. I'm surprised that they didn't realize this.

I wasn't talking about increasing gas milage anyway, but had heard that many years ago someone used hydrogen injection as a way to pass emisions tests.

[CDNFB]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

Yeah, thats the setup that I saw.

using very expensive Platinum to make it happen

I thought that pure nickel was usable as anode and cathode

[ONLNTM5A]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

Most people are using non-magnetic stainless steel, I think 304 or 316 grade, which I believe has nickel in both grades-

I haven't seen the Mythbusters episode, but yes, you have to be able to produce many, many liters per minute of gas to be effective. The way that they just throw things together without a whole lot of precision, isn't going to produce an effective test anyway.

[CDNFB]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

Looks like I'll have to check out your hydroxy forum cause this stuff is cool.

[zlexiss]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

I haven't seen the Mythbusters episode, but yes, you have to be able to produce many, many liters per minute of gas to be effective. The way that they just throw things together without a whole lot of precision, isn't going to produce an effective test anyway.

Well, running on pure hydrogen/oxygen, it shouldn't matter. Thermodynamics means you can at best get as much energy out of burning the mixture as you put in splitting the water molecules.

[matt3989]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

Wow this is very interesting

now i have a few questions ( sorry if they are very basic)
do you use electricty to seperate hydrogen and oxygen? or do you have to add something else?
Is that what the baking soda is for?
Once its seperated do you need to use consiant energy to keep it seperated?

[ONLNTM5A]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

Wow this is very interesting

now i have a few questions ( sorry if they are very basic)
do you use electricty to seperate hydrogen and oxygen? or do you have to add something else?
Is that what the baking soda is for?
Once its seperated do you need to use consiant energy to keep it seperated?

Yes, DC (can’t use AC) electrical current is used to separate the hydrogen and oxygen, but the baking soda that I used, is an “electrolyte”, which is something that helps increase the electrical energy, thus producing more gas. Without an electrolyte, you will not produce a great deal of hydroxy gas. There are those that claim to have invented devices that can do it without an electrolyte, but the proof is elusive at this time. I used baking soda because it was convenient, but most people use sodium hydroxide, some use salt water (sodium chloride), or any of the other electrolytes discussed on the hydroxy forum.

Once the water is separated, it turns into the hydroxy gas bubbles that rise to the top of your water solution, and then into the atmosphere, or open air, or into the combustion chamber of an internal combustion engine to be ignited by spark plugs. Electrical current is only necessary to separate the molecules, but not to maintain the separation. Eventually, they will recombine into water again.

Here is an interesting video that was posted this morning on the Hydroxy forum. Watch it all of the way to the end, to see where they mention that the car that they are showing, will use salt water to make hydrogen fuel.
http://www.youtube.com/v/ry6w3mRm-FM