Hydrogen Injection?

[matt3989]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

i read that you guys were having trouble generating enough power to run the engine and make fuel. have you considered using an alternator that works like a turbo, off of the exhuast.

[BobbyZ72]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

Where not really talking about running the engine totaly off water, just boosting or adding to the gas mileage.

[ONLNTM5A]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

i read that you guys were having trouble generating enough power to run the engine and make fuel. have you considered using an alternator that works like a turbo, off of the exhuast.

For a booster or even an all water powered car, generating enough "power" is not the problem at all, if you’re talking about volts and amperage. Most people install a higher amp alternator if they are experimenting with “brute force” electrolysis, but the majority of experimenters build electrolysers (where the hydroxy is produced) that draw low volts and low amps - even Stan Meyer (the one that was murdered) used very low volts and micro amps to run an all water powered dune buggy.
The main problem, is not that the basic idea won’t work - the main problem is trying to modify the science to work in all of the present day internal combustion engines, whether it be an automobile or a simple lawnmower engine, because they were not designed to use water fuel. It can be done, but is very complicated at this time. One factor that people are trying to overcome, is the fact that as the hydroxy is ignited, it turns back into water, which is harmful to most all internal combustion engines, unless everything is ceramic coated inside the combustion chamber. What is actually needed, are engines built specifically for water fuel, or hydroxy as it is widely known. I believe that in the not too distant future, we will see some private developer build and market an all water fueled car, that has an engine designed just for that.

[zlexiss]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

even Stan Meyer (the one that was murdered) used very low volts and micro amps to run an all water powered dune buggy.

See my earlier comment and please let me know how he's getting more energy out of the system than he was putting in.

[CDNFB]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

One thing that you also have to look out for regardless of the amount of hydrogen or hydroxy that you introduce into the combustion chamber is the possibility of valve failure due to hyrdrogen embrittlement. This is from the hydrogen coming into contact with steel components in a high pressure and high temperature enviroment.

To get around this you would need some sort of ceramic or ceramic coated valve(s).

[ONLNTM5A]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

That's right, as with hydroxy only, after combustion, it turns back into water before leaving the combustion chamber to leave out of the exhaust. For an all hydroxy system, you have to have ceramic coated everything, in the combustion chamber to prevent corrosion, as well as stainless steel exhaust. Now, with a booster system that uses both hydroxy and gasoline, there are additives in the gasoline to keep corrosion from taking place in the engine.

Xlexiss, I will respond to your last post soon-

One thing that you also have to look out for regardless of the amount of hydrogen or hydroxy that you introduce into the combustion chamber is the possibility of valve failure due to hyrdrogen embrittlement. This is from the hydrogen coming into contact with steel components in a high pressure and high temperature enviroment.

To get around this you would need some sort of ceramic or ceramic coated valve(s).

[ONLNTM5A]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

See my earlier comment and please let me know how he's getting more energy out of the system than he was putting in.

Well, that’s the $64,000.00 question as they say - in other words no one knows “exactly” how he did what he claimed to do, because he kept the key details of it secret. There seems to be a lot of evidence that he did accomplish the running of a dune buggy on hydroxy only, because he had to demonstrate his claims to the US patent office to get the patents that he was granted. There is a lot of disinformation out there about Stan Meyer though, so you will be able to find information that tries to totally discredit his claims. Anyway, in my opinion, it doesn’t really matter if you get out more energy than you put in, as far as powering an automobile, as long as what you get out, is in a form of energy that can be used to run a car. This is not as much of a concern as it would be for something like the production of ethanol. It takes almost a gallon of “fossil” fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol from corn (they say that switch grass would be a lot more productive). Now, if you were wanting to produce hydroxy from the electrical grid, and then use it to turn a generator to power a house and so on, then you would definately be concerned with power in and power out. So, as I see it, there are certain applications where the power in and power out are of great concern, but there are other instances where it is not much of a concern. With the house powering scenerio, most people are looking at solar or wind power to make the hydroxy, which could make it more viable in those instances.

This water fuel science has been around for a while, but has always been suppressed by the “Powers That Be”, because they couldn’t make very much money on water fuel, like they could with oil. With the widespread distribution of information in this day and age though, the water fuel science is really taking off, and I believe has gotten to the point that the Powers That Be are no longer able to police it. I believe that in the not too distant future, we will see some private developer come out with a car that is designed to run on nothing but water. You can look at that Tesla roadster as an example of what can be accomplished by an independent group of investors with determination and money.

So, anyway, that is my opinion on the subject, but keep in mind that I have only been involved with this water fuel science for 5 months, so at some point, I may change my mind. If you know of any reason why you would have to put out more “energy” in hydroxy, than you are using in DC current from an automobile’s electrical system to produce the hydroxy, then I would definitely be interested:)

Bruce

[zlexiss]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

because he had to demonstrate his claims to the US patent office to get the patents that he was granted.

Did he say he had to demonstrate it? A working model or demo isn't normally a requirement for obtaining a patent

If you know of any reason why you would have to put out more “energy” in hydroxy, than you are using in DC current from an automobile’s electrical system to produce the hydroxy, then I would definitely be interested:)

from your earlier posts, using "very low volts and micro amps" means that he's putting very little power (on the watt level?) to produce hydroxy to run his dune buggy on. Since the laws of thermodynamics mandate conservation of energy, he's not going to get out more than that when he burns it back into water. Only a very small dune buggy (matchbox car) will run on a watt of power. Heck, generating losses would mean that he can't even run his alternator on the the hydroxy it produces, otherwise we're past the realm of peretual motion machines and into free energy.

[ONLNTM5A]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

Did he say he had to demonstrate it? A working model or demo isn't normally a requirement for obtaining a patent



from your earlier posts, using "very low volts and micro amps" means that he's putting very little power (on the watt level?) to produce hydroxy to run his dune buggy on. Since the laws of thermodynamics mandate conservation of energy, he's not going to get out more than that when he burns it back into water. Only a very small dune buggy (matchbox car) will run on a watt of power. Heck, generating losses would mean that he can't even run his alternator on the the hydroxy it produces, otherwise we're past the realm of peretual motion machines and into free energy.

I’m tired right now, so this may sound like gibberish. Anyway, something that I forgot to mention about Stan Meyer’s invention, was that he used a frequency generator to tune in to the frequency of water through his electrolyser cell(s), and it only required low amps and low volts to do it - “supposedly”. Also “supposedly”, this frequency split the water molecules so efficiently, that he didn’t need an electrolyte, and produced gobs of hydroxy gas. Now, don’t ask me to explain that one, because if I could, I could probably get rich off of it. I believe that the Patent office didn’t believe that he was able to accomplish this though, so they had to have a demonstration, for which he proved his device worked and was granted patents.

OK, so you have your electrolyser cell or cells with water and your favorite electrolyte, hooked up to your car - you turn your ignition switch on, and battery power begins producing hydroxy instantaneously, and then you turn the key to the crank position, which causes the starter to turn, also from battery power. The hydroxy is already in the combustion chamber at this point, because with 12 volts of DC electricity, you can produce many, many liters of gas in a short time period. All of a sudden, the engine cranks as the hydroxy is exposed to the spark from the spark plugs because the ignition coils have already been sending electrical power to the spark plugs as the starter was turning, and since the engine is cranked and running, your alternator is pumping out enough voltage and amps, to keep the battery charged for the next time that you crank the car, and is helping to provide adequate voltage to your electrolyser, and other components of your car (whew).

This is the scenario that most everyone is working with in this day and time, 7 years after Meyer’s death. Meyer is pretty much old news now, because people have poured over his patents for years now, and no one, as far I know, has been able to reproduce what he was claiming to do. So, the questions that you are pondering about Meyer, have been pondered A LOT. Also, this “magic” water frequency that can split water molecules is elusive at this time, and most people are not pursing it anymore. There are tried and true methods that just need more research and development, and there are plenty of people working on it. There are not too many people that don’t believe that Meyer did accomplish something significant. If you are familiar with all of the information out there, you can tell what’s bogus and whats not bogus, and believe me, there are quite a few scams, like the boosters on Ebay for example:eek:

[zlexiss]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

he used a frequency generator to tune in to the frequency of water through his electrolyser cell(s), and it only required low amps and low volts to do it - “supposedly”.

You're right about describing this later as magic - it's in direct conflict with the DC current needs. DC pulses = DC mixed with an AC component.

The trouble I have is that people claim all these mystical undiscovered properties for water to justify how their inventions work. It's far easier to rig or game the demonstration than to overturn the currently known laws of physics.

with 12 volts of DC electricity, you can produce many, many liters of gas in a short time period

I'm with you on this one - it's all about the amps (Faraday's 1st law of electrolysis). Electrolytes and other advances haven't lowered the amps needed to create a given volume of gas, but they have increased efficiency by lowering the voltage required.

there are quite a few scams, like the boosters on Ebay for example:eek:

Oh yah.

[ONLNTM5A]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

You're right about describing this later as magic - it's in direct conflict with the DC current needs. DC pulses = DC mixed with an AC component.

The trouble I have is that people claim all these mystical undiscovered properties for water to justify how their inventions work. It's far easier to rig or game the demonstration than to overturn the currently known laws of physics.



I'm with you on this one - it's all about the amps (Faraday's 1st law of electrolysis). Electrolytes and other advances haven't lowered the amps needed to create a given volume of gas, but they have increased efficiency by lowering the voltage required.



Oh yah.

Looks like you know more about it than I do, which wouldn't be hard, since I have only been involved for 5 months:)

[ONLNTM5A]

Re: Hydrogen Injection?

This is off subject a little bit, but I thought that some might find this interesting. It shows how to remove rust by using electrolysis:
http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.ph...c,31612.0.html