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  • Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

    I have had a misfire with my '96 3.8 for quite some time. The car idles between 1k -1.1k rpms. Although the rpm gauge barely moves, I can feel the misfire. I have the hard starting issues that many have reported here. When under load, I can floor the pedal and the engine will creep up to about 3K rpms and then all of sudden let loose and start going, no matter what gear or whether I have up/down shifted.

    I have a CAI, pacesetter headers, magnaflow hi flow cat and a 3" magnaflow cat back. No tunes and no more mods.

    Trying to fix the embarrassing hard starts and the misfires (slow acceleration), I have replaced the fuel pressure regulator, done a full tune up, replaced the EGR ( OEM one was bad ), sea foamed intake, crankcase and fuel several times.

    I'll try to recollect the issues as best as I can.

    After the exhaust was done, I noticed that instead of feeling more power, I felt less. I first wrote it off as maybe It's just me, i used 3" pipes and it's free flowing too much, etc...

    Shortly thereafter my A/C breaks, well after much fiddling with it, I had a shop swap out the compressor. That compressor lasted a week and died. They put in another one. After that compressor was installed, coincidentally, I start having overheating problems that were not there before. What's odd is that the engine starts running hot when I am cruising and going over 50MPH. The temp gauge will climb to about 240 then cool down to 210 and cycle right back to 240 and down to 210 again. Before these cooling issues my gauge would never reach 210 (half point mark). If I am idleing it will sit at the 210 mark, if I come to an idle after a cruise, the temp will quickly come back to 210, not less though. I have replaced the thermostat (180), radiator cap and water pump. Have flushed the radiator by means of draining from the drain plug and pushing fresh water through. Refilled with that crappy dexcool. The shop says that maybe the radiator needs to be rodded. Something I noticed to was that every couple of days I would have to top off my radiator, it was low on dexcool.

    Trying to remedy the slow acceleration situation, I replaced the fuel filter after the pressure regulator. The filter was all rusted and nasty on the outside, once I was able to pull the thing off, some black stuff came out of the fuel tank side. Thinking, there's my problem, the filter is clogged. Ya; wishful thinking. My problems get worse. All of a sudden, I lose over 100MPG to a tank. I could not believe it, thinking, I must have miscalculated. After a few more fill ups, sure enough, I am only getting around 220miles for every tank full. Now how in the world could my MPG decrease substantially by replacing the fuel filter. I too thought that maybe I was leaking the fuel.

    When the shop replaced the fuel pressure regulator, the mechanic tells me the lower intake plenum gasket is busted. I figured that explained the burned coolant smell (sweetish) that I have been detecting since the exhaust was put in.

    I drop the car off at the shop again to have the water pump replaced(over heating issues, possibly loss of coolant through seep/weep hole), plenum gasket replaced (coolant smell and loss of coolant) and clutch replaced (it was slipping). When all that was done, the shop tells me that one of the intake runners was spotless and the rest of the plenum was full of carbon. I initially thought he meant a cylinder was spotless; only to later find out he was talking about the plenum had a cavity(?) spotless. Although I was in the 500 mile break in period of the clutch, it was obvious that the lag in acceleration and the miss were gone. I filled up my tank right after the repair.

    2 days later I felt something odd with the car as I was driving on the freeway. Immediately after that, I felt the lag in acceleration all over again. The odometer was at 290 (Poor gas mileage was a thing of the past). By the time I drove another 15 miles and watched my fuel gauge rest on the "E". Put in $15 @ $2.80/gall and that only took me 77 miles. That equals 14.37MPG.


    Take the car back to the shop, they pressure test the coolant system again because I claimed to smell the coolant again. The car holds the pressure over night. The car still has the overheating issue as well. The mechanic test drives the car and tells me that it drives like a V6. I insist there is something wrong, he checks compression and he gets 80-100 on all cylinders. He checked 3 diff times with 3 diff gauges. That's where I stand. I have thrown tons of money at this car and I do not know when should I lick my wounds and move on.

    I still have the fuel pump pending, which I want a walbro. According to members of this site, the walbro will stop pumping at 1/4 tank. There's also mention of a kit that should be used with the walbro 340 universal kit. The only thing of the coolant system that hasn't been replaced is the radiator (even the little plastic elbow over the water pump was replaced), shop suggested to get it rodded, I rather pay a few bucks more and just get a newer one.

    Sorry for such a long post, i'm just frustrated and was hoping someone here can make sense of the jibberish I wrote and at least help me get on the right path. I knew the engine eventually would blow up just hoped it wouldn't be this soon.

    Edit: I ordered the walbro pump this morning, the guy said he's gonna send a pigtail with the pump that is designed for the camaro. Is that the "kit" that is referenced here in other Fuel Pump threads? I am overly concerned about the threads here that I have read that indicate that the Walbro stops pumping gas at 1/4 tank, leading to stalls. The threads that I have read refer to a 99+, I have a 96.
    Last edited by candela; 10-15-2007, 11:21 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

    Have you replaced the usual... Plugs, wires, and coil pack?

    Idk about the overheating problem though

    Camaro V6 - 14.3 @ 96mph
    Camaro SS - cam/boltons/m6/tune
    http://www.crfhq.com

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    • #3
      Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

      Yes sir. A full tune up was done. Since I started troubleshooting this issue, I've replaced the plugs twice, wires twice and coils once. I have constantly checked the resistance on both coils and had the ICM checked by my local Advance Auto Parts.

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      • #4
        Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

        are you positive that the gas isnt leaking?

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        • #5
          Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

          Yes I am. The fact that the MPG rose beyond 240 miles after the lower intake plenum gasket was replaced tells me that I'm burning this fuel and a friggin hole in my pocket in the process.

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          • #6
            Update

            Fuel pump was replced with the Walbro 255LPH 340 universal pump. Pump was $99, shipping and tax was another $12.

            The pump resolved my hard start problems, unfortunately the other problems still remain. The shop is leaning towards retarded timing and/or water in cylinders.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

              does it seem like it is running hot or does it only show in the gauge. engine coolant temp sensor maybe.10096181

              do you have any service engine codes?
              maybe pcm.88963803 or the 97 16227797

              and my 96 has the same hard start issue i just let the pump cycle and then it starts right up.
              96 camaro auto base model<br />slp cai<br />pacesetter headers<br />flowmaster catback<br />35th anniversary ss wheels<br />richmond 3.73<br />98+ ss spoiler<br />hypertech 160 degree thermostat<br />transgo shift kit

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              • #8
                Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

                Do you still have to add antifreeze since having the water pump replaced? Is the air damn under the core support there? That missing will cause it to heat up on the highway. I have never seen "rodding " out a radiator work as well as a new one.
                Another thing is the collent temp sensor reporting the correct temp? If it is telling the PCM the collent temp is lower then it is the PCM adds fuel. The gauge and the PCM use different sensors.

                How old are the O2 sensors? The shop may have reset the fuel trims when they replaced the gasket and slowly the PCM is adding more fuel as it relearns the fuel trim. I too have the Pacesetters and 3" exhaust and my fuel trims are up in the 140's, witch means the PCM is adding fuel. Evan with that I get 26 MPG on the highway.

                The "one " clean runner in the intake sounds like water is getting in that cylinder. When you change the plugs is the plug whiter from the cylinder with the clean runner, than the other plugs?

                Just a few idea's.

                Brian
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

                  Yes it does in fact run hot. I thought of the coolant sensors but the fans turn on once the temp reaches 210. The fans are continously working, that is what keeps the temp from reaching 260.

                  Now the engine has developed a whining sound that has turned into knocks. The shop seems to believe it's either the main bearing or a rod knock. The more money I threw at this friggin engine looking to improve it has just uncovered more and more problems. If in fact it's the bearing or a rod, I'm just gonna get me a donor car with an LS1 in it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

                    Originally posted by bigbrian442
                    Do you still have to add antifreeze since having the water pump replaced? Is the air damn under the core support there? That missing will cause it to heat up on the highway. I have never seen "rodding " out a radiator work as well as a new one.
                    Another thing is the collent temp sensor reporting the correct temp? If it is telling the PCM the collent temp is lower then it is the PCM adds fuel. The gauge and the PCM use different sensors.

                    How old are the O2 sensors? The shop may have reset the fuel trims when they replaced the gasket and slowly the PCM is adding more fuel as it relearns the fuel trim. I too have the Pacesetters and 3" exhaust and my fuel trims are up in the 140's, witch means the PCM is adding fuel. Evan with that I get 26 MPG on the highway.

                    The "one " clean runner in the intake sounds like water is getting in that cylinder. When you change the plugs is the plug whiter from the cylinder with the clean runner, than the other plugs?

                    Just a few idea's.

                    Brian
                    Thanks for the suggestions. Yes I still have to add antifreeze. The shop is estimating about a cup of coolant a week. All the air dams are still there. As far as the heating goes, if I start the car and just let it idle, the gauge will sit at 180 (approx). Once I put a load on the car, the gauge surpasses the 210 mark. If I idle it after it has passed the 210 mark, it will not go down from there, no matter how long it stays idleing. It will go down to 210 though if left to idle long enough (5-10 mins). I totally agree with you, that is why if need be, I will order a new rad.

                    They did not reset the fuel trims, at least they have not made any mention of doing so. I do not know the age of the o2's. I do know that the shop had a hard time getting one of them out, when they did the exhaust, so they just threw a new one on there. As for the other ones, I do not know. I have considered replacing them, just could not correlate 02 with the current issues, especially overheating. Of course I could be wrong, seeing as I know very little about repairing and diagnosing vehicles.

                    My car has never given me more than 23MPG highway since I've had it. After the exhaust and the CAI, I would have hoped to get better MPG.

                    I have more issues now though, refer to the previous post.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

                      My guess is if you still have to add coolant and it gets a little warm a intake gasket might still be leaking or you have a small head gasket leak. When you chagned the plugs did you notice a white residue on any of the plugs?
                      1995 Patriot Red T-Topped Z28 A4<br /><br />Mystery rebuild in progress.<br /><br />Soon to have 383 ways to beat KBreezy and Shane. :D

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                      • #12
                        Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

                        If the battery was unhooked while they did the work( it should have been) then the fuel trims were reset.

                        The loss of antifreeze, overheating and "clean intake port" all point to a leaking / blown head gasket or cracked head.

                        If they remember what cylinder had the clean intake port, I would have them put compressed air into that cylinder with the radiator cap off and see if the air finds it's way out there.

                        Is there ever any water/ antifreeze in the oil?

                        My milage went up about 3 MPG with the headers and 3" exhaust. No tunning ...yet but HP tunners is on the way.


                        Brian
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

                          Originally posted by candela
                          Yes it does in fact run hot. I thought of the coolant sensors but the fans turn on once the temp reaches 210. The fans are continously working, that is what keeps the temp from reaching 260.

                          Now the engine has developed a whining sound that has turned into knocks. The shop seems to believe it's either the main bearing or a rod knock. The more money I threw at this friggin engine looking to improve it has just uncovered more and more problems. If in fact it's the bearing or a rod, I'm just gonna get me a donor car with an LS1 in it.

                          Sorry I didn't see this post. I too have been looking for a donner car with a LS1. They don't come cheap.


                          Check for glitter (metal) in the engine oil. If you have some there it's a bearing.

                          Brian
                          Last edited by bigbrian442; 10-19-2007, 08:39 PM.
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

                            Originally posted by bigbrian442
                            Sorry I didn't see this post. I too have been looking for a donner car with a LS1. They don't come cheap.


                            Check for glitter (metal) in the engine oil. If you have some there it's a bearing.

                            Brian
                            I have not seen any white residue on the plugs and I've checked them each time I've replaced them.

                            I do not have any water in my oil, checked again yesterday. That and the fact that my compression is low on all cylinders is why the shop has gone away from the blwn headgasket theory. They say that if it was a head gasket the compression would be low in the adjacent cylinders, not on all of them.

                            I'll drain the oil tomorrow and check for metal particles. I've been thinking about the V-8 swap in the event tht my engine blew up, was hoping it would be this soon.

                            I've priced out the parts for the swap, including engine and tranny. Parts come out to around $2500.

                            I just put in a frggin Centerforce kevlar clutch in the car less than a month ago. Only have 600 miles on the damn thing. Grrr.. this is soooo frustrating.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Beware long thread.. Compression, Gas mileage, misfires, etc....

                              Originally posted by 4thgenowner
                              My guess is if you still have to add coolant and it gets a little warm a intake gasket might still be leaking or you have a small head gasket leak. When you chagned the plugs did you notice a white residue on any of the plugs?

                              I have heavily considered this theory. That would explain the loss of coolant, the sweet coolant smell in the car, thr misfring (running on 5 cylinders) and more importantly, when the gasket was replaced the problem had gone away for 2 days. The shop pressure tested the car a few times, including once overnight and it held the pressure.

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