! Idler Pulley Mod

[badinfluenceRS]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

doesn't matter...it will stretch...I understood putting a smaller bet on thats a given. What I'm saying is that ALL belts stretch up to .5in witch is way more than enough to cause it to consistently jump off. If its possible to make deleting the tensioner work. it will be hell keeping it working

I dont know about that.

I deleted the AC, Smog, and the idler pully on my old 350 truck

the belt held up fine and it was ALOT smaller than the stock sized belt

It just takes some careful measurments and trial and error to find the perfect belt

[nightrider2]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

I dont know about that.

I deleted the AC, Smog, and the idler pully on my old 350 truck

the belt held up fine and it was ALOT smaller than the stock sized belt

It just takes some careful measurments and trial and error to find the perfect belt

thats different...you tighten that with the alternator. your still missing the point...that tensioner is there to absorb that slack.

[Blizzard242]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

If you read the other half of half my post, you notice that I didn't say the tension would be more. My point is that it is less, not enough to keep the belt on the other pulleys or to make other accessories function properly.

Grease... I was talking about those sorry excuses of a spare tire. They're like 3 inches wide. LOL But you're right steelies are heavy.

Rob

And by "worsened" that was not meant to imply the tension was stronger or weaker. :drool: Don't start making up definitions now. I did read the other half of half your post. Try understanding half of half of what I'm saying.

[kristen]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

i put the pump in, in aug. since there the camaro hasn't driven that much.(not my daily driver) but i haven't seen much difference. that is just my product of having time and money. just decided to get one for the heck of it.

plus it's pretty!

[rt1]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

And by "worsened" that was not meant to imply the tension was stronger or weaker. :drool: Don't start making up definitions now. I did read the other half of half your post. Try understanding half of half of what I'm saying.

Then what was your question? And please be clear so that I won't have to infer any definitions. :)

Rob

[Blizzard242]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

Ok.. simpler.. How is the tension of the belt changed with this mod relative to a stock belt route? And you said it would be looser but I don't see how. I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything, I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint.

[rt1]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything, I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint.

Naw, I understand, I'm not taking any offence, I hope you aren't either.

Here's the way I think you see it, please correct me if I'm wrong... The pulleys not gone, it just doesn't have any spring to it anymore, so a smaller size belt took the place of the springiness (not sure if that's a word) so it's a wash. That seems fine, with the engine not running.

The way I see it, and I posted it before, it's a matter of eliminating something that was put there because of a need. There needs to be a certain amount of tension on the belt for all the accessories to work right. Back in the day it was with the way the alt was mounted, and now it's with the tensioner pulley.

Without the springiness of the tensioner pulley, when the belt wears, even a little, it's comming off.

Rob

[badinfluenceRS]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

thats different...you tighten that with the alternator. your still missing the point...that tensioner is there to absorb that slack.

no that was serpintine TBI

Just have to measure the belt very accurately, trial and error to get the right one and it will be just as tight as stock

Here's the way I think you see it, please correct me if I'm wrong... The pulleys not gone, it just doesn't have any spring to it anymore, so a smaller size belt took the place of the springiness (not sure if that's a word) so it's a wash. That seems fine, with the engine not running.

I don't get it, if you get a smaller belt (probably like .5-1" in this case) it should make up for it and the tensioner will still do its job

[Blizzard242]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

Yeah I.. as far as I know the tensioner is still applying pressure to the belt and the smaller belt size was to make up for the absence of the bend in the belt which the pulley that was deleted caused. Instead of the bend there is a straight line which is the shortest distance between 2 objects which is why a shorter belt was needed. It just appears to me that there is the same tension in the belt with the pulley deleted as there was with the stock setup.

[iGoRa]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

..


First of, I want to make main thing clear – it’s guaranteed that it will free some hp. I don’t want to build case here, because even haters do realize that.

Second. I have never said:” you’ll get 50 to the wheels yo!” It will be very little amount to notice ~1-3hp? vs. perfect(new) pulley. But if your bearing is half way shot - it robes you even more. How to check: Just remove the belt so you can see if you have excessive wear/grooves on the pulley. In addition, move your finger around surface- you can feel burned spots on the pulley.

the engineers put stuff in places because it is needed, not just to waste money

That is correct.
I guess every one will agree on the following:
If I will remove Power steering pump – I will get even more hp, same for alternator, water pump and mentioned above AC. Yes. But for what price?
Remove Alternator – loose spark and injectors – engine wouldn’t run
PS pump – power assistance for steering
Water Pump – needed to cool the engine (replacing it with electric will free some hp too, yes its true)
AC- comfort, I want to keep mine.
Idler Pulley - ??? What does it do? No one here said WHY Do you need one? WHY?
Because its easier call Dumb words and make thousands useless posts than actually Think about something.

Idler pulley there IS for a reason and the reason for it is to provide greater contact area for AC pulley. Word “tension” has been used in few replies. There is a point when no matter how tide your belt is, if contact area is too low belt will slip. That’s why engineers have used the Idler pulley,- to prevent AC slippage when in use.

Now let’s compare stock belt route, to the one that I have proposed.
As you see I didn’t just yank the pulley and call it good. Nobody asked: “Why not just remove pulley and use same belt, keep original sensor location?”. Because doing so will decrease AC belt contact area and will increase risk of slippage.
I have done my research and in order to accomplish my goal I had to reroute the belt like on the picture.




Notice highlighted area. For AC its greater than stock, for water pump and alternator it’s much greater than stock, which mean that system wouldn’t slip even with lower tension.
.....next page

[iGoRa]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

Tension.
I'm using same pulley, same spring rate. Pulley is pushing almost same direction.
Smaller belt was used only to accommodate new belt route, NOT to compensate for lost belt tension.
Alternator trick is just for ease of installation only. Alternator pulley rib didn’t allow just slip it on. You can easily take it out normal way. I have tried 3 out of 4 different sizes and the one I have posted worked the best. However , no suppliers did carry the belt with one size longer (92" , PN: 4060919 (6PK2335) )than I have used. I'm sure if posted belt will stretch half an inch it’s just will be beneficial.

[ssms5411]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

After looking at your diagrams, I like it. Good job. I wil be trying this next after I need a new belt.

[Camarodragcar2002]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

On the N/A race car, we made it so it just turns a alt.

[FirebirdGT]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

I have done my research and in order to accomplish my goal I had to reroute the belt like on the picture.




Notice highlighted area. For AC its greater than stock, for water pump and alternator it’s much greater than stock, which mean that system wouldn’t slip even with lower tension.
.....will continue

I agree with the concept. However, it is my opinion that the tensioner will NOT be exerting the same force on the belt.

Add an arc to show the movement of the tensioner and you should see my point.

[iGoRa]

Re: ! Idler Pulley Mod

oh, one more thing:
3800 SERIES III Doesn't have this pulley! So yes, GM engineers removed it this time.