Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

[pace2006]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

where'd you get that info?
Care to explain why some cars never came with MAF screens then? The only thing it does is serve as additional protection to your MAf sensor.

From what I've heard, most cars came with the MAF screen to help filter air in evenly. Damage or remove the screen on some and they idle erratically. Others, not so much. But it does also help to catch some larger debris should the air filter fail.

I've also read about the drive by wire automatics having some sort of torque management or abuse management. But a quick look into HP Tuners on my car quickly rejected that theory. Unless it's been tuned beforehand without my knowledge. But there is also that 40mph lag...

As mentioned beforehand, clean your filter, TB, and MAF screen (I wouldn't advise removing it though). Also try seafoaming your car if you haven't in the past 15,000 miles. Or maybe a simple tune up could help it. My car can seem sluggish at times, possibly because of age, but primarily because of my experiences with faster cars, but it's still fun.

[ssms5411]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

I know people with the electric TB that with their pedal mashed will only see 98% at WOT, which it really doesn't matter with that 2% difference. But on their TB's if something goes out they have to buy the whole TB. Where as the cable TB's , we can replace everything on it, which makes it alot cheaper to maintain. For the maf screen on my 96' I have had it out for almost a year and it runs great(took it out for my nitrous dry shot), but I had to do some tuning with HPtuners to get it to idle normal. I would say unless your getting highly modified and have Hptuners leave the screen in, it is suppose to straighten air flow, thats why it is in there from the factory.

[tkoforpresident]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

if the maf screen is so important to the maf sensor then why doesn't the 3.4 have one?

[ssms5411]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

if the maf screen is so important to the maf sensor then why doesn't the 3.4 have one?

Different engine, different design from the factory.

[whitdog54]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

While the equinox gets up and goes quick, my car feels like it has more power up top. Then again my car should, the equinox only has a 3.6l 185hp and is heavier. Maybe I'll do a seafoam, but crap I just changed my plugs. =( Would cleaning the MAF screen do much?

Yes cleaning the MAF will help allot, especially if you installed a K&n or recently recharged it. Get some MAF cleaner and spray the hell outta that thing

[cam98aro]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

if the maf screen is so important to the maf sensor then why doesn't the 3.4 have one?

its a completely different design

thats like saying if apples taste so good and you love them, you will automatically love oranges too

[96firebird311]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

They're both fruit.

[Firebirdkid96]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

Yes cleaning the MAF will help allot, especially if you installed a K&n or recently recharged it. Get some MAF cleaner and spray the hell outta that thing

I wouldn't "Spray the hell Out of it", but get a little in there to clean it.

its a completely different design

thats like saying if apples taste so good and you love them, you will automatically love oranges too

Bad Analogy.

They're both fruit.

ROFL.

if the maf screen is so important to the maf sensor then why doesn't the 3.4 have one?

Why doesn't the 3.4 have a MAF Sensor?

From what I've heard, most cars came with the MAF screen to help filter air in evenly. Damage or remove the screen on some and they idle erratically. Others, not so much. But it does also help to catch some larger debris should the air filter fail.

I've also read about the drive by wire automatics having some sort of torque management or abuse management. But a quick look into HP Tuners on my car quickly rejected that theory. Unless it's been tuned beforehand without my knowledge. But there is also that 40mph lag...

As mentioned beforehand, clean your filter, TB, and MAF screen (I wouldn't advise removing it though). Also try seafoaming your car if you haven't in the past 15,000 miles. Or maybe a simple tune up could help it. My car can seem sluggish at times, possibly because of age, but primarily because of my experiences with faster cars, but it's still fun.

Pulled it out of my car, and it idles fine. How can you use something that comes before the butterfly valve in the throttle body to control idle?

in newer cars yes, but not when it first came out

I'd still rather have a drive-by-wire TB over a drive-by-cable on our cars. Seems to me an electronic movement occurs more quickly than a mechanical one.

[tkoforpresident]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

^ epic response

[pace2006]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

Pulled it out of my car, and it idles fine.

VVV

Damage or remove the screen on some and they idle erratically. Others, not so much.

I've also had the pleasure of talking to many GM mechanics and F-body enthusiasts (3 other Camaro/Firebird owners, both 3.8 and 5.7) in the past year, many of whom said to not remove the screen, whether from personal experience or technical advice. As stated earlier, each car will react differently from another.

Just another perk to having a boyfriend that works under GM. ;)

How can you use something that comes before the butterfly valve in the throttle body to control idle?

First off, let me say that the only thing that controls the idle is either the ECU, PCM or someone tampering with the car. Everything else is under the control of the computer and works accordingly to its commands. Ever unplugged the IAT sensor and driven around without it? The car will have a noticeable different idle after a while and can throw a code. Same thing as if you pulled out the MAF. Pull it out and the car will be hard to start and rough to keep an idle at low rpms. The ECU uses these sensors to get info in order to determine how much fuel is needed to balance the a/f ratio. The butterfly valve in the TB is what the computer uses to allow air into the engine based on the readings from those sensors and how much you push down on the gas pedal. It is merely a door that is never closed all the way, and opens however much is needed based on the demand placed upon it, primarily by your foot.

As to why removing the screen can cause the car run differently: the screen is placed in front of the MAF to filter air evenly toward the sensor in order for it to measure the flow of incoming air. Take out the screen and the air is more turbulent, skewing the readings, and the MAF sensor tells the computer that there is a stronger intake of air, which results in a demand for more (unnecessary) fuel. In other words, it will just make your car run slightly richer and won't help out performance marginally enough to make a difference.

Why doesn't the 3.4 have a MAF Sensor?

Once again. Different engine. Different design.

Yes cleaning the MAF will help allot, especially if you installed a K&n or recently recharged it. Get some MAF cleaner and spray the hell outta that thing

Don't spray the hell outta anything if it involves the MAF sensor. In other words, don't just point and shoot up the TB towards it. Pull it out and gently clean it with an approved cleaner. That tiny wire is very sensitive and can break or go bad easily.

Another epic response. :p

[zpwn06]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

Why doesn't the 3.4 have a MAF sensor? Why doesn't my mom's volvo come with drag radials? Why don't ferraris come with mud flaps? idk

[Christopherrr]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

Ahem, every single vehicle made...in some way, has a Mass Air Flow Sensor. It's how a ECU, PCM meters air...you must have it.

To increase throttle response you must achieve a couple things...increased air flow at a any given position of the throttle body and how that increased air flow (power) it transferred to the rear wheels.

My mods are as follow and increased Throttle Response like day and night. SLP CAI (closed), Lid, K&N, Descreened MAF, Spacer, with a smooth connector...through headers, cat!, reasonator, 3" pipes, magnaflow.

[Firebirdkid96]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

VVV
I've also had the pleasure of talking to many GM mechanics and F-body enthusiasts (3 other Camaro/Firebird owners, both 3.8 and 5.7) in the past year, many of whom said to not remove the screen, whether from personal experience or technical advice. As stated earlier, each car will react differently from another.

Just another perk to having a boyfriend that works under GM.

While I agree that cars will react differently, GM's tech advice is a textbook response in many cases, perhaps someone should conduct flow numbers.

First off, let me say that the only thing that controls the idle is either the ECU, PCM or someone tampering with the car. Everything else is under the control of the computer and works accordingly to its commands. Ever unplugged the IAT sensor and driven around without it? The car will have a noticeable different idle after a while and can throw a code. Same thing as if you pulled out the MAF. Pull it out and the car will be hard to start and rough to keep an idle at low rpms. The ECU uses these sensors to get info in order to determine how much fuel is needed to balance the a/f ratio. The butterfly valve in the TB is what the computer uses to allow air into the engine based on the readings from those sensors and how much you push down on the gas pedal. It is merely a door that is never closed all the way, and opens however much is needed based on the demand placed upon it, primarily by your foot.

Okay. First off, you unplug the IAT, and the car throws a code. It doesn't affect the way the car runs, AT ALL. Secondly, if you ever have unplugged your MAF you would see that in some cases the car is not hard to start and does not have a rough idle. Unplugging the MAF forces the computer into speed-density mode, which is what EFI vehicles used prior to MAF system introduction. Look at the 1987 Ford Mustang. You just can't alter the car too far from stock for it to run well. Thirdly, and this is going back, there's a set screw on the throttle body in drive-by-cable. If you turn it far enough, it will start to open the butterfly valve slightly at idle, thus allowing more air into the engine, and rising the car's idle. You are correct that the PCM utilizes these various sensors to adjust the A/F Ratio, however you have forgotten the all-important o2 sensors, which are what ultimately read and determine the bottom line a/f ratio. Lastly, the butterfly valve in a drive by cable design is not controlled by the PCM at all, unless its on cruise. The PCM utilizes other ways to increase idle if needed.

As to why removing the screen can cause the car run differently: the screen is placed in front of the MAF to filter air evenly toward the sensor in order for it to measure the flow of incoming air. Take out the screen and the air is more turbulent, skewing the readings, and the MAF sensor tells the computer that there is a stronger intake of air, which results in a demand for more (unnecessary) fuel. In other words, it will just make your car run slightly richer and won't help out performance marginally enough to make a difference.

...So the MAF Screen directs all the air to a little hole in the upper side of the Throttle Body? Take the screen out, and there is a stronger intake of air because? The air flows more freely and isnt controlled by a quarter inch thick screen designed to protect your engine from larger particles that shouldnt be in it.

^ epic response

Thanks, Here's another.

Ahem, every single vehicle made...in some way, has a Mass Air Flow Sensor. It's how a ECU, PCM meters air...you must have it.

To increase throttle response you must achieve a couple things...increased air flow at a any given position of the throttle body and how that increased air flow (power) it transferred to the rear wheels.

My mods are as follow and increased Throttle Response like day and night. SLP CAI (closed), Lid, K&N, Descreened MAF, Spacer, with a smooth connector...through headers, cat!, reasonator, 3" pipes, magnaflow.

First off, Every single vehicle made DOES NOT HAVE A MAF SENSOR. Vehicles have only had MAF sensors since the inception of EFI, they were released circa 1988. I think that the seventy or so years of carburated vehicles compared to the twenty years of fuel-injected would say that in the history of the automobile, MOST vehicles DID NOT have a MAF Sensor. This is why some EFI vehicles operate off Speed Density...They don't meter incoming air, just exhaust. This is what our cars do when you unplug the MAF Sensor. Runs like **** with any mods, but runs all the same. Hell, even the 3.4 4th gen's don't have MAF sensors.

On another topic, throttle response is determined by overall airflow, not just intake...and I notice you have a descreened MAF...May i ask what you saw from that?

[zpwn06]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

The MAF screen doesn't direct the air, it prevents turbulence when moving a high volume of air so the MAFs readings are accurate. although honestly, accuracy isn't that important, really, so you aren't going to notice any real problems with removing it, unless you are really concerned about performance and fuel economy.


And for those who think its really hurting their performance: "does gm just put random pieces of plastic on their cars for the purpose of slowing them down? Of course they do, obviously mechanical engineers have no idea what they're doing"



nice looking car chris!

[Firebirdkid96]

Re: Always wondered about the throttle response in our cars.

The MAF screen doesn't direct the air, it prevents turbulence when moving a high volume of air so the MAFs readings are accurate. although honestly, accuracy isn't that important, really, so you aren't going to notice any real problems with removing it, unless you are really concerned about performance and fuel economy.


And for those who think its really hurting their performance: "does gm just put random pieces of plastic on their cars for the purpose of slowing them down? Of course they do, obviously mechanical engineers have no idea what they're doing"



nice looking car chris!

Duh, that's why we have speed limiters and air silencers.