power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

[aalugo2000]

Hello everyone,
A little backstory. i have a 99 3.8l auto camaro (140k miles, about 30k miles since the engine was pulled and rebuilt), wasnt running as well as it should have been considering i have pretty much every bolt on part and upgraded 80% of the internals (only internals not replaced are rockers, injectors, and crank). It ran well enough that when i took it to a few mechanics they drove it and told me there is nothing wrong, and when i say its not running as well as it should be i mean that it is only about as fast as a stock camaro.

Also, it had been turning over for about a second before it would start, this has been happening for about a year now, never thought too much of it.

I had someone run the hp tuners software on it and found that there was random misfires in 4 of the cylinders (although it did not throw a code, and it wasn't really noticeable, i have had bad wires or coil packs before where the car sputters and it was doing nothing like that), 3 of the cylinders were pretty bad and one was not so bad, as far as frequency of misfires. so we replaced the plugs and wires and the one cylinder that was not too bad was fixed completely and the other 3 misfired less, but still misfired (at idle). After the plugs were first replaced the car would start right up, instantly, so that was an improvement, but after about 4-5 starts it went right back to hesitating to start for about 1-1.5 seconds before it would fire up. Next i replaced all of the coil packs, this didn't seem to do much, and on top of that the car in the last 2-3 days has been taking more like 2-3 seconds of turning over before it fires up, noticeably worse.

Finally this morning before going to work i start it up, it takes about 3 seconds to fire up, then about 4-5 seconds after it starts the whole car just dies, no power, no lights, gauges frozen where they were. So i turn the car off take the key out and attempt to restart... nothing. wait about 30 seconds and try again.... car starts but then cuts right out again, no power no lights no nothing. after taking the key out again the gauges eventually all go back to zero after about a minute. i checked under the hood, wires were all connected, battery connection looked fine. (battery is optima yellow top only about a year old btw).

So i have searched the forum, and i found a few comparable issues, but my car has a significant variable than each of them that makes me unsure of what the issue is. here are my best guesses:

1. Ignition module? i have no experience with this part, but think it might be the culprit??

2. Alternator? i have replaced it once (about 5 years ago). but i wouldn't have though alternator because my volts have been steady, no fluttering in the gauge under throttle or anything, volt gauge has been consistent. Last time my volts were acting all funny for a few days before the alternator had to be replaced.

3. Injectors? i could see this maybe being part of my misfire issue, or the startup issue, but for the car completely shutting down??

4. Fuel pump? Same thoughts as injectors. (fuel filter is only about a year/and or 3000 miles old so i dont think its the filter)

5. Vacuum leak? Read about it on that random misfire site, but again, reason for the car to shut down?

Maybe there is 2 different problems here, but the fact that the car started right up after i initially replaced the plugs and wires makes me thing that it is one problem.

Please help me out if anyone has any advice, i have tried to search and be as thorough as possible.

[cam98aro]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

does the security light flash when this happenes? i dont remember offhand, but im pretty sure when i had some VATS issues my car pretty much died.

since it will start for a while, then die, it could be a BCM problem.. but im not entirely sure that the car does with the gauges (if they will reset, or just fall and set the check gauges light)

i doubt it is an alternator.. doesnt sound like the symptoms of one.. although a bad battery can kill an alternator.. its best to check both the battery and alternator.

im going to say no against the injectors.. just my opinion.

fuel pump, im also doubting.. but it can be a clogged fuel filter due to bad gas, or a clogged fuel pump sock

you first need to check the battery and alternator, and see if you are getting spark, then i would move on to fuel and check the injectors.. after that i would check the sensors like a bad IAC, MAF, or TPS

lastly, i would look at the cat, it could be clogged so bad that your car can hardly run, which can cause misfires and even pinging noises

[aalugo2000]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

does the security light flash when this happenes? i dont remember offhand, but im pretty sure when i had some VATS issues my car pretty much died.

since it will start for a while, then die, it could be a BCM problem.. but im not entirely sure that the car does with the gauges (if they will reset, or just fall and set the check gauges light)

i doubt it is an alternator.. doesnt sound like the symptoms of one.. although a bad battery can kill an alternator.. its best to check both the battery and alternator.

im going to say no against the injectors.. just my opinion.

fuel pump, im also doubting.. but it can be a clogged fuel filter due to bad gas, or a clogged fuel pump sock

you first need to check the battery and alternator, and see if you are getting spark, then i would move on to fuel and check the injectors.. after that i would check the sensors like a bad IAC, MAF, or TPS

lastly, i would look at the cat, it could be clogged so bad that your car can hardly run, which can cause misfires and even pinging noises

Appreciate the feedback cam98aro.

i was not getting any flashing lights. just started up like normal, then just died.

Im not familiar with the "BCM" could you explain what that is.

Im gonna try and get the battery and alternator tested tonight after work, it just happened this morning, and luckily i have another car to take to work. i HAVE had a optima battery that was replaced under warranty before, it just died all of the sudden. would slight fluctuation in battery power account for any of the misfires?

as far as the cat... there isnt one. i did have a clogged one before, and yes the car barely ran... solved that problem, although id like to get a good hiflow back on, its too loud for me these days, was kinda cool when i was in college, not so much anymore.

[cam98aro]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

bad batteries can do all sorts of crazy things, although i find it a little hard to believe that it could cause a misfire

the BCM stands for (correct me if im wrong) body control module.. it deals with stuff like alarms, power door locks, your VATS.. sometimes they can go bad and prevent you from starting your car.. usually when they do go bad, your car will start for about 5 seconds then die on you

if i think of anything else,i will let you know

[Rob Bell]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

Many times slow starts (where you crank and crank and crank) are caused by a faulty fuel pressure regulator (FPR). It lets the pressure bleed off, and when you try to start it the pump has to build pressure back up. When it is refusing to start is when you need to test it. You need to check to see if sparks are being produced, and then check the fuel pressure. When you put the key in the Run position you should hear the pump run for 1-2 secs, and then the pressure should hold. If the pressure drops quickly then you know the FPR is bad. So, I would check those two things first. Always remember, it needs spark and fuel. Keep telling yourself that.

That issue with no power to anything is odd though. I cannot explain that one.

[a-master]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

i would shoot for the ignition module, i had a similiar problem about a year back and it did not throw codes either. we replaced the coil packs and problem went away for 2 days and started right back up again. replaced ingnition module, its OEM and i dont know of any aftermarket but that was it. my car had about 120,000 miles on it weh it happended. if it's never been replaced, thats probably it. just go to summit or jegs and order one.

[auto666]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

Hate to say it bud but im pretty sure you have pcm issues its the only component that can cause all the issues your having.
Now if its 2 problems i would say fuel pump and BDC.
Check fuel pressure.
Try swaping pcms with some one.

[aalugo2000]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

ok. Heres the latest....

Had battery tested, it had good voltage but had a low charge.

Removed and tested alternator... voltage was good, but it was noisy, so they replaced it under warranty saying that the bearings were bad. So if it had good voltage i dont think it was the issue, but i got a new alternator anyways.

Replaced alternator and started the car up (still took about 2 full seconds of cranking before it fired up). voltage looked good, maybe even slightly higher than usual. But i noticed white smoke coming out of the exhaust. I had noticed the last couple days i started it up in the garage that it smelled like my moms old chaparral snowmobile, a smell that i never had noticed from my car before, but never noticed smoke, but i let it run for about 2-3 minutes and it did not go away, it was not very thick, and it evaporated quickly (dissapeared at about 4 feet from the tailpipe), it almost looked just like if it were really cold out, but it was 50* out today, actually i would say it was grey smoke and not white. it just got dark out so i will probably run it for a more extended period of time tomorrow and re-evaluate the color of the smoke.

also... i did rev it a few times and it did not appear to produce any more dense/or thck smoke, just stayed pretty much the same but blew out from the tailpipe further.

from some basic searching it could be the following:

pcv valve?

Head gasket, letting antifreeze burn? although i dont think it smells like antifreeze, but im no expert.

Too much oil? i did get it changed about a week ago, but have not noticed the smoke until tonight.

running lean? would this be bad injectors maybe? could this also explain the misfires?

[aalugo2000]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

Hate to say it bud but im pretty sure you have pcm issues its the only component that can cause all the issues your having.
Now if its 2 problems i would say fuel pump and BDC.
Check fuel pressure.
Try swaping pcms with some one.

when you say BDC are you referring to what cam98aro called the BDM? is this just a sensor that can be replaced, or is it more intensive? Im surprised that even back in my day a few years ago when i was doing all my mods that i never heard about it.

p.s. If there is anyone in the west michigan/grand rapids area that has hptuners/dhp, or knows someone that does, please give me a heads up. (and by "area" i mean within about 150 miles, im willing to drive a bit if i have to).

[Blizzard242]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

I have HP tuners and live in/by Toledo.

btw, what are all the mods you've done? Cam shaft?

Also, you wouldn't happen to have a remote starter would you?

How are your ground cables? Did you ever upgrade them to a larger gauge?

[aalugo2000]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

I have HP tuners and live in/by Toledo.

btw, what are all the mods you've done? Cam shaft?

Also, you wouldn't happen to have a remote starter would you?

How are your ground cables? Did you ever upgrade them to a larger gauge?

Engine mods include a new cam, valves, lifters, springs, diamond racing pistons (bored 20 over), and the l32 rods. PCM was tuned by texas speed & performance. Cold air induction tunnel thing, intake lid, K&N, CIA headers, no cat, and borla catback. Engine has been this way for a few years now and has never run the way it was supposed to, imo. but never had problems like i am having now either.

I do have an ungo alarm that has a remote start. Have not used it in probably a year, got tired of carrying the little cell phone looking fob around.

I couldn't tell you much about the ground cables, i assume they are stock, i have not touched them unless they upgraded them when stereo was installed or something.

[Blizzard242]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

My remote starter caused a few problems for me.. and when my Dad had one he had problems with his. My car doesn't like the remote start at times. It sometimes makes it think someone it trying to steal it then I can't even turn it on by key for like 5 minutes. It was very irritating when I was running late for work.

Try upgrading your big 3. Do a search on that specific term to learn a bit more about it. "Big 3" that could help with the rough starts.

Take it to an autozone or somewhere of the sorts to get a free scan. Just to see if anything comes up.

As far as your PCV, you can test it by taking it out and shaking it. If it makes sound that's good from what I remember.

Your car hasn't always acted like this since the tune has it?

I'd also suggest checking your spark plugs, fuel rail pressure, and getting HP tuners for yourself. It's an invaluable tool and probably the best thing I've ever bought for my car.

[aalugo2000]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

My remote starter caused a few problems for me.. and when my Dad had one he had problems with his. My car doesn't like the remote start at times. It sometimes makes it think someone it trying to steal it then I can't even turn it on by key for like 5 minutes. It was very irritating when I was running late for work.

Try upgrading your big 3. Do a search on that specific term to learn a bit more about it. "Big 3" that could help with the rough starts.

Take it to an autozone or somewhere of the sorts to get a free scan. Just to see if anything comes up.

As far as your PCV, you can test it by taking it out and shaking it. If it makes sound that's good from what I remember.

Your car hasn't always acted like this since the tune has it?

I'd also suggest checking your spark plugs, fuel rail pressure, and getting HP tuners for yourself. It's an invaluable tool and probably the best thing I've ever bought for my car.

did a search for big 3 and found no threads with it in the title, and i sifted through a few and found nothing, if you have a link i will read it but to at least tell me what the big 3 you are referring to would help, then i could search those individually with better results i think.

[Blizzard242]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

I apologize, I did the search again myself and I see what you mean.

Anyways, I did find something though. This is straight from another thread:

**"All you have to do is remove the wires that go from:

1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine

This was already explained to you in your other post about your low voltage, you take those wires off, that are 8 gauge wires, and replace them with a bigger gauge wire, like a 4 gauge.


As many of you know, upgrading the "Big 3" wires in your engine compartment can lower the overall resistance of your entire electrical system. The effects of the lower resistance are typically:

1) Reduced dimming and smaller voltage drops
2) More stable voltage and better current flow
3) Less strain on your vehicle's charging system"**

Straight from the other thread.

[aalugo2000]

Re: power cuts out.... searched, need advice.

Many times slow starts (where you crank and crank and crank) are caused by a faulty fuel pressure regulator (FPR). It lets the pressure bleed off, and when you try to start it the pump has to build pressure back up. When it is refusing to start is when you need to test it. You need to check to see if sparks are being produced, and then check the fuel pressure. When you put the key in the Run position you should hear the pump run for 1-2 secs, and then the pressure should hold. If the pressure drops quickly then you know the FPR is bad. So, I would check those two things first. Always remember, it needs spark and fuel. Keep telling yourself that.

That issue with no power to anything is odd though. I cannot explain that one.

Rob,
you are saying that 'when its refusing to start is when i need to test it', last night and this morning it has started and stayed running (for 3 startups at least, haven't had the courage to take it out on the road yet), so could i still test the fuel pressure, or are you saying that the only time to test it is when it wont stay running?