I read a site that said basically only shorty headers are legal... questions.

[Deoxyribonucleicvitriol]

Obviously I want the best performance... but I want to stay legal. Is it true that with anything but shorties I will not pass emmission testing?

Also... won't shorties offer almost no improvement on stock headers? I don't want to spend 500+ dollars on something that will do very little for me.

Sorry if there are a million topics like this... I'm at work, have a short break, and I can't search now but would like this to be up so it can be answered while I'm away.

Thanks tons!

[Kevin T.]

I think it may come down to what state you are located in. Different states have different laws. Here in NC we don't really have to worry about our exhaust unless its too loud but in places like california I think its illegal to do pretty much anything to stock exhaust.

[ellik]

there arent any options for us other than shorty headers.... unless you get custom made ones. The pacesetters I am pretty sure even have a CA approval now.

[Deoxyribonucleicvitriol]

By "us" do you mean people living in california or do you mean you flat can't put anything but shorty headers on a '97 camaro?

[ellik]

I mean nobody makes anything but shorty style headers for the 3.8L engine, period. You have CIA, RK Sport and Pacesetter to choose from, all of which are shorty style headers. there is a guy on here that does have long tubes, but they are pacesetters that were cut apart and extended... aka custom. at one point there was rumor that pacesetter was going into R&R on longtubes, but that was 6 months ago and nothing has been said about it since.
Longtubes are generally considered as "off road use only" meaning they wont pass emissions. shorties will, mid lenghts will (for those v8'ers who have mid lengths to chose from). My pacesetters are giving me a fit with an O2 sensor in the passenger manifold. when its hot, its fine. when its cold, I get a code. Unless I get it worked out, or do my emissions testing now instead of october, Im not going to pass. Emissions in PA are now based on codes rather than sniff tests. I am hoping a new sensor takes care of the problem.

[ July 08, 2004, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: ellik ]

[Deoxyribonucleicvitriol]

I assume customs would be stinking expensive, so that kinda stinks.

I mean... if the car already has shorties is there really a point to getting another set?

[ellik]

you post no information about your car. makes it tough. If it is a 97 (i think you made mention of a 97), then they are log style manifolds which essentially suck @ss. Even the newer style would be a great improvement. Ceramic coated headers would be better still.... hold heat in (out of the engine bay) and flow a bit better too.

[Deoxyribonucleicvitriol]

I don't have a car yet, but I will be buying a 1997 Camaro 3.8 liter V6. So what kind of HP/mpg/whatever else improvement am I looking at if I got the ceramic headers on top of a loudmouth exhaust? (only improvement gain from headers, not headers and loudmouth... I know that some mods help others is why I'm saying this)

[ July 08, 2004, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: Deoxyribonucleicvitriol ]

[ellik]

headers arent going to gain you much of anything if you dont have a high flow cat between them and your exhaust. good thing is a 3" in/out magnaflow/ carsound high flow cat is only about $35 on Ebay.
So, considering you have the high flow cat and an exhaust already, going from manifolds to headers on an otherwise stock car will net you +/- 5HP... maybe, will make a huge improvement in sound, and set you up for much better gains when you do bigger mods.

[ellik]

looks like you added to your questions.
I also have 3.42 gears, new plugs and wires and an intake but I just changed my exhaust setup and went from manifolds and 2 1/2" cat-back exhaust to headers/ high flow cat/ 3" exhaust and pcm tune and my purely highway mpg went from roughly 30 to 36mpg on my last trip. just beating around town short distances (<10 miles between starting and shutting off car) and heavy on the gas, mpg still sucks. high teens or so.

[Deoxyribonucleicvitriol]

So all I would need is new headers, high-flow cat you mentioned, and loudmouth catback right? Or is there something else in the system I'm missing. I see people saying "manifold" and wonder what exactly they're talking about.

[ReodDai]

Manifold/header... both do the same job except designed differently. Manifold gets the job done... header is more performance related.

[Deoxyribonucleicvitriol]

er... but my statement... correct? I don't know what or where the manifold occurs in the chain of intake/exhaust and if it is a peice or a name for a group.

[ReodDai]

Exhaust goes as follows from the Heads(engine) to out the back: Manifold/header (piping going from the heads down to a collector), collector goes to catalytic converter, S-pipe, I-pipe, over the axle pipe, muffler, tail pipe(s) + tips.

[ellik]

what he said. you are right, you will need the headers, the new cat, and the loudmouth which is a cat-back and includes the I-pipe, over axle pipe, muffler and tailpipes. You will also need the SLP install kit which is essentially hangers and the piece for your S-pipe. not sure why they dont include the S in thier kit, they just dont whereas my Magnaflow cat-back kit did have the S-pipe.