Truth about headers

[98Camaro3.8]

Originally posted by Jerriko:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Snuffalofogus:
other than sound, didnt really feel a gain

What information did you keep track off to come to that conclusion? 1/4 times, 60' times, fuel mileage, etc </font>[/QUOTE]His a$$. He said he didn't feel a gain.

[andrew.brandon]

Originally posted by 98Camaro3.8:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jerriko:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Snuffalofogus:
other than sound, didnt really feel a gain

What information did you keep track off to come to that conclusion? 1/4 times, 60' times, fuel mileage, etc </font>[/QUOTE]His a$$. He said he didn't feel a gain. </font>[/QUOTE]same with my underdrive pullies. I couldn't feel any diffrence but my track trime improved

[shenanigans]

no offence...

But I think headers on a v6 are not really worth it...

do I have scientific info to back it up? Not really.

I had a 3.4L, I experienced lots of problems with too much flow as in, I had the stock manifolds and the exhaust freed up and lost ~1/2 (VERIFIED IN SEVERAL OCCASIONS) in the 1/4 and definite sit of pants feel.

Don't really know on my 3.8L but I seem to have been doing good.

I know people say backpressure is a myth but I disagree on 3.4L and 3.8Ls... I have LOTS of experience on my 3.4L at the track.

Granted I have tubular manifolds, but if I had a pre-tubular manifold 3.8L I'd get 99+_ tubular manifolds, main reason just being to make it easier to change plugs and such.


I know people will say my aren't accurate, but I have been to the track TONS of tiems and I had numerous problems with too much flow on my 3.4L

I assume the same with my 3.8L.


Is it possible you might see, a very very small gain, do I think its worth the cost, and time it takes to install headers and such? I say no way in hell.

But hey its my opinion take it or leave it.

[shenanigans]

P.S. to verify the tune of my ***-o-meter

I felt a difference when I installed underdrive pulleys on my 3.4L, worth buying them new? No, but worth buying them used with a belt with low miles, I felt the $50 shipped I spent was worth it [img]smile.gif[/img]

[phoenix64]

Originally posted by Jerriko:
Headers will only work as good as the rest of the exhaust (and intake for that matter). You know, only as strong as the weakest link. Anyone to suggest that tubular manifolds would be as good as headers didn't do something right. The main reason headers work is because of the scavenging effect. This helps suck the exhaust out of each cylinder when the exhaust valve opens. Without headers, your volumetric efficiency may only be 60%-70% but once you put headers on, the efficiency can jump up to 90%. Of course, that will only depend on the rest of the exhaust.

Your theory is sound, but in pratice the tubular maniflods will create more velocity than the headers, for reasons stated in my post above. Pacesetters are crap you get what you pay for.

BTW when people say you need "backpressure" for lowend, what they really mean is VELOCITY.

[blacksport]

If i had a V6 with tubular manifolds I wouldnt put header on it the next time around.


I have my old Tubular Manifolds for sale cheap cheap. Email me at MaxxRacer7@aol.com

[shenanigans]

http://www.camarov6.com/ubb/ultimate...c;f=8;t=006627

[Jerriko]

Originally posted by phoenix64:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jerriko:
Headers will only work as good as the rest of the exhaust (and intake for that matter). You know, only as strong as the weakest link. Anyone to suggest that tubular manifolds would be as good as headers didn't do something right. The main reason headers work is because of the scavenging effect. This helps suck the exhaust out of each cylinder when the exhaust valve opens. Without headers, your volumetric efficiency may only be 60%-70% but once you put headers on, the efficiency can jump up to 90%. Of course, that will only depend on the rest of the exhaust.

Your theory is sound, but in pratice the tubular maniflods will create more velocity than the headers, for reasons stated in my post above. Pacesetters are crap you get what you pay for.

BTW when people say you need "backpressure" for lowend, what they really mean is VELOCITY. </font>[/QUOTE]?
Long tube headers create more velocity than short tubes. How in the world do you claim that stock manifolds would be better? The scavenging effect creates more velocity. Stock headers don't create a scavenging effect. I hate bad information. You people have to realize that a lot of people come here for information and when you spread false information, it reflects poorly on this site.

[MrCoffee]

when I took the tubular mainfolds off I obviously compared the two. There's a slight difference, but its nothing to write home about. I believe that they dont add too much hp if any at all. its about about the change in tone.

[1998silverbird]

If you run a power adder headers are a must to obtain the power your car really has.. I dynoed over 325hp and 433 tq on a 125 shot and all I had done was headers, full exhaust, whisper lid and thats it.. on motor your not going to gain a whole lot.. the sound is awsome however..

[Jerriko]

Originally posted by MrCoffee:
when I took the tubular mainfolds off I obviously compared the two. There's a slight difference, but its nothing to write home about. I believe that they dont add too much hp if any at all. its about about the change in tone.

Spoken like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Did you happen to notice the angles which the exhaust gases merge from the different cylinders? How about the fact that the tubes of the headers are smooth on the inside vs the cast manifolds?

[phoenix64]

Originally posted by Jerriko:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by phoenix64:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jerriko:
Headers will only work as good as the rest of the exhaust (and intake for that matter). You know, only as strong as the weakest link. Anyone to suggest that tubular manifolds would be as good as headers didn't do something right. The main reason headers work is because of the scavenging effect. This helps suck the exhaust out of each cylinder when the exhaust valve opens. Without headers, your volumetric efficiency may only be 60%-70% but once you put headers on, the efficiency can jump up to 90%. Of course, that will only depend on the rest of the exhaust.

Your theory is sound, but in pratice the tubular maniflods will create more velocity than the headers, for reasons stated in my post above. Pacesetters are crap you get what you pay for.

BTW when people say you need "backpressure" for lowend, what they really mean is VELOCITY. </font>[/QUOTE]?
Long tube headers create more velocity than short tubes. How in the world do you claim that stock manifolds would be better? The scavenging effect creates more velocity. Stock headers don't create a scavenging effect. I hate bad information. You people have to realize that a lot of people come here for information and when you spread false information, it reflects poorly on this site. </font>[/QUOTE]Check out my other post. The headers I took off, which were pacesetters, were very poorly made. The header tubes didn't line up with the exhaust port, honestly some of them were at least a 1/4in off, and they were the wrong shape. If they were properly made they would work, but the ones I purchased probably cost me HP, due to the turbulence from the ports not matching. I guarantee that stock tubular manifolds create more of a scavenging then MY pacesetters.

[MrCoffee]

Originally posted by Jerriko:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MrCoffee:
when I took the tubular mainfolds off I obviously compared the two. There's a slight difference, but its nothing to write home about. I believe that they dont add too much hp if any at all. its about about the change in tone.

Spoken like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Did you happen to notice the angles which the exhaust gases merge from the different cylinders? How about the fact that the tubes of the headers are smooth on the inside vs the cast manifolds? </font>[/QUOTE]do not disrespect me like this again. I dont give a **** if you are a sponser. I will not argue that there's a gain, but there's not enough to get an erection over. and until you have my car and my headers I suggest you just take your rude *** old man comments to yourself.

[Jerriko]

Originally posted by MrCoffee:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jerriko:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MrCoffee:
when I took the tubular mainfolds off I obviously compared the two. There's a slight difference, but its nothing to write home about. I believe that they dont add too much hp if any at all. its about about the change in tone.

Spoken like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Did you happen to notice the angles which the exhaust gases merge from the different cylinders? How about the fact that the tubes of the headers are smooth on the inside vs the cast manifolds? </font>[/QUOTE]do not disrespect me like this again. I dont give a **** if you are a sponser. I will not argue that there's a gain, but there's not enough to get an erection over. and until you have my car and my headers I suggest you just take your rude *** old man comments to yourself. </font>[/QUOTE]I don't want your car or your headers. Obviously, something is wrong with them. But to think that since your car is that way and then make a conclusion that ALL cars would be that way is ludricious. I don't have to disrespect you, you do a pretty good job of disrespecting yourself by what you wrote.

[Jerriko]

Originally posted by phoenix64:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jerriko:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by phoenix64:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jerriko:
Headers will only work as good as the rest of the exhaust (and intake for that matter). You know, only as strong as the weakest link. Anyone to suggest that tubular manifolds would be as good as headers didn't do something right. The main reason headers work is because of the scavenging effect. This helps suck the exhaust out of each cylinder when the exhaust valve opens. Without headers, your volumetric efficiency may only be 60%-70% but once you put headers on, the efficiency can jump up to 90%. Of course, that will only depend on the rest of the exhaust.

Your theory is sound, but in pratice the tubular maniflods will create more velocity than the headers, for reasons stated in my post above. Pacesetters are crap you get what you pay for.

BTW when people say you need "backpressure" for lowend, what they really mean is VELOCITY. </font>[/QUOTE]?
Long tube headers create more velocity than short tubes. How in the world do you claim that stock manifolds would be better? The scavenging effect creates more velocity. Stock headers don't create a scavenging effect. I hate bad information. You people have to realize that a lot of people come here for information and when you spread false information, it reflects poorly on this site. </font>[/QUOTE]Check out my other post. The headers I took off, which were pacesetters, were very poorly made. The header tubes didn't line up with the exhaust port, honestly some of them were at least a 1/4in off, and they were the wrong shape. If they were properly made they would work, but the ones I purchased probably cost me HP, due to the turbulence from the ports not matching. I guarantee that stock tubular manifolds create more of a scavenging then MY pacesetters. </font>[/QUOTE]Ok, I will give you that. If the headers were made bad, that is one thing but to conclude that ALL headers are not beneficial b/c of it is wrong.