B&B Tri-Flow Installed, 3.8 "seems" SLOWER??????

[HorsePower Junkie]

I have a stock Z28 Muffler, how good (or bad) will it sound on my 2002 3.8 V6, & how good (or bad) does it flow? Any performance gains to be had using the stock Z28 muffler off a 2001 Z28?

Thanks...

[scottblack]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by bluecmaro96:
scott black doesnt have headers either thats why it sounded like crap. i bet the spintech doesnt give anywhere near the hrsp the triflow gives, prove me wrong get it dynoed<hr></blockquote>

?!?!?!?!?!?????
Why would i take off my spintech, replace it with the B&B, then dyno it, then replace the spintech and dyno it again in another city since mine doesn't have anyone with a dyno, just to prove you wrong????

Locally (awhile ago before the dyno was sold) the spintech put out 8 more horsies than a borla did on the V8. I feel it more than i did the triflow too, but you won't take my word for it because I don't have proof, so whatever.

Scott

[knowledgefreak]

bluecamaro the only problem here is that sure b&b flow great but dont sound great and some people actually care more about torque than hp as torque is what makes you win a race.

Local hot rod shop here worker was begged by spintech to take off his borla and dyno and replace with the spintech on his 8. He gained 8hp over the borla and we all know b&b is slightly better than borla. We need a balance of good sound quality and performance on a 6 and for me i believe that is spintech or dynomax super turbo.

[HorsePower Junkie]

What do you think I should do? Since I'm gonna change out the B&B (keeping the tips, of course! LOL!) should I replace it with a DynoMax SuperTurbo, ...or Spintech, ...or use the stock Z28 muffler I have???

Anyone that's done this before, or ridden in a friend's car that's done it, etc., please help!!! I was going to the muff shop today but just called them now & told them I'd be there Monday morning instead so I could get a little more help from you guys.

Thanks, you guys are the best, I appreciate your help! [img]graemlins/burnout.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/burnout.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

[scottblack]

SPIN


TECH

!

[bluecmaro96]

i didnt mean go get it dynoed then buy triflow and dyno it then yada yada yada... i meant get it dynoed if you gain more than 12 rwhp then i will believe spintech is better as for torque i bet you wont gain more than 18 rwtq

[scottblack]

I never had it dyno'ed in the first place, so i really would not have an accurate measure.

[Night Rider]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HorsePower Junkie:
What do you think I should do? Since I'm gonna change out the B&B (keeping the tips, of course! LOL!) should I replace it with a DynoMax SuperTurbo, ...or Spintech, ...or use the stock Z28 muffler I have??? <hr></blockquote>

Dude wait! Dont do that. The b&b is an excellent exhaust probably the best $$ can buy, for performance, looks, sound, & stainless steele finish quality.

There is a reason why it costs $600+. The b&b is true & tested. Super Chevy published a dyno chart of a stock 1996 3.8L camaro which gained 13rwhp & 14lbs. of rwtq after installing a b&b. Nothing else comes close imo. If you want better low-end torque, go w/ higher gears, of use a smaller restrictive cat, this way you keep the $$ you've already spent on the b&b, still get a nice sound & the superb looks & reach the torque peak @ a lower rpm band for better off the line acceleration, which is what i did.

As for torque winning races. B.S. It's hp that counts. Why do so many v6 f-bod's whip up on 93-98 mustang gt's when they have 300lbs of torque & we only have 225lbs.? B/c of hp. Look at the honda s2000?? Lack of torque can be made up for by lower gear ratios, increasing backpressure, but NOT hp. You either have it or you don't.

I'm not doggin spintech. I've never heard it, so can't comment. But i have heard, B&B, Borla, Flowpro, Flowmaster & dynomax on a V6, & i still prefer b&b. Dynomax does sound nice. Bene(2kblufbody) has dynomax, & he even admits to wanting a b&b.

It doesn't matter what you do to a v6, it can be made to sound similar to a v8, but you wont get the same rumble despite what you do to the exhaust. It's something that not even porsche can overcome. It's just the nature of the beast.

[scottblack]

I still prefer my spintech over the B&B i had, but that's just my opinion.......

Feels faster too.......


I am stepping off the soapbox. [img]graemlins/penguin.gif[/img]

Scott

[knowledgefreak]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Night Rider:




As for torque winning races. B.S. It's hp that counts. <hr></blockquote>


Do you really understand the whole torque vs hp deal? That statement of your Knight makes no sense at all.

Horsepower is in a sense, unimportant. Horsepower doesn't move a car. It is really a measurement of how capable the engine is of maintaining the force that really is moving the car

Torque is what twists the tire, prop, or pump. Horsepower helps us understand an amount or quantity of torque. (Torque + time)

Here's an interesting bit of trivia; below 5252 rpm any engine's torque will always be higher than its horsepower, and above 5252 rpm any engine's horsepower will always be higher than its torque.


good torque is useful for lazy overtaking on the road, helps away from the start line in a drag race, and means you don't have to pay quite so much attention to gear selection on a race track, power to weight ratio is the most important determinant when it comes to acceleration.

Of course hp and torque go hand in hand and we all know this I could post a bunch of calculations and what not BUT....

The Only Thing You Really Need to Know
Repeat after me. "It is better to make torque at high rpm than at low rpm, because you can take advantage of *gearing*." For any given level of torque, making it at a higher rpm means you increase horsepower - and now we all know just exactly what that means, don't we :).

The terms horsepower and torque can be confusing at times. One of the top authoritative magazines on engines, Hot Rod Magazine, took twenty pages to explain torque vs. HP. Here's a paraphrase of what they said.

Simply defined, horsepower is the rate of doing work over a given amount of time. According to experts from SAE, one horsepower (1 HP) equals 550 ft-lb. per second or 33,000 ft-lb. per minute. Another familiar formula is the one which states RPM x Torque / 5252 = horsepower

Torque is the measurement of the strength of the rotational movement and determines how fast a car, boat, or airplane accelerates up to a required speed.

An example here should be helpful:

Think of a V-8 car engine that puts out approximately 300 HP or more at 6,000 rpm compared to a large diesel semi-truck that puts out 300 HP at 2,200 rpm. They are both 300 HP engines; however, they are very different and offer different performance capabilities. The V-8 car engine puts out 300 HP and produces 263 ft-lb. torque at its top working speed of 6,000 rpm. The diesel truck engine puts out 300 HP but puts out 716 ft-lb. torque at its top working speed of 2,200 rpm.

If you put the V-8 car engine into a diesel truck (even though it is also 300 HP) it can not even move the truck. This is because the low speed strength (TORQUE) of the V-8 is not sufficient to even get started. The diesel engine has much higher torque but is very large in size and weight, i.e. 700 - 900 cubic inches and 2500 lb. in weight.

Thanks for your time

[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: knowledgefreak ]</p>

[Night Rider]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by knowledgefreak:



The Only Thing You Really Need to Know
Repeat after me. "It is better to make torque at high rpm than at low rpm, because you can take advantage of *gearing*." For any given level of torque, making it at a higher rpm means you increase horsepower - and now we all know just exactly what that means, don't we .<hr></blockquote>

Knowledge Freak, thank you for the elongated dissertation, very imfortative, but that is not anything new, Nor is this a debate about hp vs torque.

Horsepowerjunkie, was merely requesting feedback regarding his b&b muffler and his perceived loss of torque. I know one of the reasons why i chose the b&b was b/c of its evidence to produce torque at higher rpms, thus increasing hp. I for one enjoy its results, and provided my opinion on it's performance.

You guys claim the spintech muffler provides better performance, and you muffler guy or whatever claims he gained 8rwhp more w/ that muffler over a borla on a dyno on his v8. Well how does that compare to a v6 engine? Is there any proof of similar gains on our engines? If it's a matter of well i like it b/c because it sounds better & feels faster, well everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: Night Rider ]</p>

[HAZ-Matt]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HorsePower Junkie:
Also, has anyone put a bullet muffler (looks like a glass pack, straight through design) in-line to tone down their exhaust sound?
<hr></blockquote>

Look in my sig again.

[HAZ-Matt]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Night Rider:
As for torque winning races. B.S. It's hp that counts. Why do so many v6 f-bod's whip up on 93-98 mustang gt's when they have 300lbs of torque & we only have 225lbs.? B/c of hp.<hr></blockquote>

Yeah, this post isn't about hp v torque, but you can read an article that knowledgefreak quoted at http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html

I think you need to take an integral of the torque curve between the shift points and divide by the mass to get a better estimation of which car will be faster.

HPJunkie how much money will you lose if you swap out the muffler? If the loss of torque bothers you, maybe you should reduce the I pipe diameter, or you can put a resonator inline that is slightly smaler than the pipe (if you also wanted to change the tone).