how much hp gain??

[99firebirdconv.]

my car had 200hp stock right, ( 99 firebird 3.8) so if i added exhaust, a k&n air filter, fasttoys ram air kit, and a Jet performance chip, how much hp should i be running right now?

[RacerJ]

Figure about 20hp without the chip. (Don't know how much the chip will add...)

[Patrick Javert]

chip will add 15-20, filter and intake will get you 20-25, and i'm assuming exhaust is cat-back, so another 20-25 for that. this is all flywheel hp. so figure 255 at the lowest you'll be puting out at the flywheel. These are conservative estimates, so you most likely will get more.

[DeathBuzzz]

I disagree with Patrick Javert. Some of the horsepower he is adding together wont add that way. I would say intake and exhaust give you 25 max total ( and i wouldnt think it would give you that unless you did full exhaust ( headers oor tubular manifolds, no cat, 2.5" mandrel ot 3" non-mandrel). I dont know about the chip... I was always against chipping the newer PCMs. I would say probably you would have 240 max at flywheel. There are guys with way more mods than intake, exhaust and chip with less HP than 255.

~Brian

[triad]

And the way I understand it is our cars aren't even 200 HP - thats just the GM rating on the engine BY ITSELF. I believe once to take into account the type of transmission you drive with and things like that we are accually running closer to 180-190 HP

[ravenp]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by triad:
And the way I understand it is our cars aren't even 200 HP - thats just the GM rating on the engine BY ITSELF. I believe once to take into account the type of transmission you drive with and things like that we are accually running closer to 180-190 HP<hr></blockquote>

I think you're thinking of rear wheel HP vs at the crank HP. Transmissions don't effect engine HP at the crank. 200 is accurate for at the crank HP, transmission will effect how much HP is lost to the rear wheels.
Correct me if i'm wrong anyone, but we're in the ballpark of 170hp at the rw depending on M5 vs A4.

For anyone planning on modding, go to the dyno before you start and after each one. That's the only way to know how they affect YOUR car. Wish I had :(

[Cale]

Patrick, you sound like a ricer - please don't do that.

If all that added up to a "conservative" guess of 255 then those simple mods would put us running against a stock LT1 Z28. Like I said - don't yak out false information like that.

First of all - who knows hwo much itd add. You'd have to dyno it (like raven said). However, all those things might get you a new max crank dyno number of 220. Now THAT number MIGHT be conservative.

You really should be caring less about the HP gains (since no one really knows) and more about current opinions and if you can waste the money on that mod.

Cat back mandrel bent exhaust - yes, that's worth it.

Whisper Lid w/ K&N - yea, that's worth it.

The rest.... if you have the money to blow.. I guess.

[triad]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ravenp:


I think you're thinking of rear wheel HP vs at the crank HP. Transmissions don't effect engine HP at the crank. 200 is accurate for at the crank HP, transmission will effect how much HP is lost to the rear wheels.
Correct me if i'm wrong anyone, but we're in the ballpark of 170hp at the rw depending on M5 vs A4.

For anyone planning on modding, go to the dyno before you start and after each one. That's the only way to know how they affect YOUR car. Wish I had :( <hr></blockquote>


I have heard an arguement that produced something similar to those figures on this board before thats why I tossed in some input. Thanks for the clarification ravenp :D

[Blizzard96]

Air filter itself probably wouldn't even add a single horse.

[RacerJ]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Patrick Javert:
chip will add 15-20, filter and intake will get you 20-25, and i'm assuming exhaust is cat-back, so another 20-25 for that. this is all flywheel hp. so figure 255 at the lowest you'll be puting out at the flywheel. These are conservative estimates, so you most likely will get more.<hr></blockquote>

Agreed with DeathBuzzz and triad. You can NOT add horsepower that way. Our cars are 200hp @ crank which translates to about 180hp at the wheels. The MAX you will get from intake and exhaust COMBINED will be about 20hp.

[scottblack]

Yeah, Patrick man, no offense, but what is your obsession with the WS6 ram air??? It is so not worth it to buy a WS6 hood when time after time after time dyno graphs have shown that the Fast Toys Ram Air is much more efficient. (I am aware that you didn't mention anything about this in this thread but I've noticed it too many times not to say anything). As mentioned before, you will get a MAX of 20-25 HP with intake and exhaust, and that is with optimum conditions. Expect less, and the only way to tell is from a dyno. Track times help too.

Scott

[Patrick Javert]

here we go...first, the obsession w/ the ws6 ram air LOWER box is keeping a ram air hood FUNCTIONAL! this allows more air in via a larger opening. also, i don't want a ws6 hood, i'm looking at a raptor hood w/ heat extractors instead. now, exhaust, 3", mandrel bent, no muffler on our cars can get you 20-25 hp at the crank. Also, intake and echaust mods complement each other. more air able to come in , more air that needs to go out. more air able to go out, more air that can come in. the whisper lid by itself has been show to add 10 hp to the rear wheels, K&N filters can add up to 5 rwhp, removed maf screen done on cardinal's car showed +5rwhp on an A4, and fast toys say their ram air kit will add 10-15 rwhp. here's 30-35 rwhp just by adding #'s on stock cars, each mod was done w/ no other mods done to the car. The slp loudmouth cat-back is probably the lowest backpressure exhaust out there w/o having open headers. slp claims 25 rwhp on stock ls1's, i figure 10-15 rwhp for our cars. On average, chips like jet, asc, and HPP3 all supposedly add 15-20 rwhp to stock V6's. all together, this adds up to a minimum 55 rwhp. figure in 15%-20% driveline losses on stock V6's, and you got 244-246.75 flywheel hp. I did not say that he'd be puting out 255 hp to the wheels, i said he would be puting out 255 hp at the crank. Yes, i was off by 10 hp. sorry. But, do the math, it is probable that he will get 245 flywheel hp. out of the deal, at least, if not more.

[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: Patrick Javert ]</p>

[DeathBuzzz]

I understand what your trying to say Patrick, but you are still trying to add it wrong. You cant just add the numbers up like that.

Besides, you are using numbers given out by manufacturers and these are NOT real world gains.

The numbers I am about to use are not correct, I am just trying to explain that you cant add HP straight up.

Say a company says you will get 25 HP from their exhaust setup. They will use the highest gain they can find for this number. So, the number they give would be with intake and some other things, THEN adding their exhaust kit. The same goes for intake. If a company says that you can get 15 HP from their intake, they are talking if you already have full exhaust and are going from a stock airbox to theirs. If you just did one of the mods ( intake or exhaust ) you wouldnt get near their rating of gain ( maybe 35-40% ).

All I am saying is that when a compay rates their mod, they are rating it on a car with other mods ( and usually on a LS1 ). Thats why every advertisement says XX HP MAX.

Does that make sense anyone?

~Brian

[RacerJ]

Yep. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Manufacturer A's advertisement of 20hp gain from their exhaust + Manufacturer B's advertisement of 15hp gain from their intake isn't going to add up to 35hp.

Like was said, you have to realize that these claims are the BEST numbers they came up with in their product testing, usually regardless of application. So in other words, an intake manufacturer will try to find some car that's basically breathing through a straw and put their intake on the hand-picked test model. They can then say that it "...adds up to 15 horsepower", because technically its not untrue.

So your first issue is that whatever "x" amount of horsepower a product claims to produce, you should expect to not see that amount of gain.

The second issue is that because the advertised HP gains were based on cars running under specific conditions, then once you change these conditions (ie: anything pertinent that is different on your car from what was on the manufacturer's test car which they're using to model their data from) you have then also changed the way the manufacturer's product will react to your system.

So bottom line is,
Product with advertised gain of A + Product with advertised gain of B does not equal gain of amount A+B.

[GregWS6'01]

I agree.......with those mods, you can't just add horsepower. Every company overrates their products. With those mods u might get 18-20HP at the rear wheels....Not so sure if the chip would be worth it, or if it could be done