Homemade ram air

[CamaroDude]

Re: Homemade ram air

Wouldn't sealing off the entire air box take away from the amount of air that is sucked up? It looks that with the set up you have now you might actually have a less effective air intake than you did when you had the free air mod. The sheet metal that you have in place is blocking all that air that was already coming in from the free air mod. You seem to actually be blocking more air now than you were allowing in before the whole set up. Wouldn't it be better to keep the tubes in and have the airbox just sealed around the edges and leave the entire middle of the airbox open? Keeping the setup you had before the sheet metal and just sealing around the edges of the airbox would allow for the most air intake, right?

Also, how did you feel that much of a difference in first gear? No CAI can create that much of a difference in first gear because you're just not moving fast enough for the CAI to be that effective... atleast, thats my opinion, i could be wrong but thats why I'm asking.

[98 3.8]

Re: Homemade ram air

It looks that with the set up you have now you might actually have a less effective air intake than you did when you had the free air mod.

I found that the free ram air mod was not very effective. This setup seems to work the best to me. We're talking small differences in air flow between the two setups, but I've decided I think that the pressure difference between the ducted air and the ambient air in front of the radiator is big enough that I'd be "leaking" air out that gap, not taking in more.

Also, how did you feel that much of a difference in first gear? No CAI can create that much of a difference in first gear because you're just not moving fast enough for the CAI to be that effective... atleast, thats my opinion, i could be wrong but thats why I'm asking.

Yep I did.

I think you're placing the wrong image with CAI. CAI = Cold Air Intake. This simply routes colder air into the intake than you'd get from inside the engine bay. (such as, I dunno, from the front of the car...:naughty: )

What I said is that this setup seems to be acting as a cold air intake as well as a ram intake.

[CamaroDude]

Re: Homemade ram air

First, it is impossible to achieve real RAM air unless you're going extremely fast, well over 500mph. The system you have currently set up is not RAM air, it is another Cold Air Intake. However, the temperature of the air being inducted through your dryer tubes is going to be the same as the air inducted by the free ram air mod. So when you sealed off the inside of the air box you lost power because you cut off alot of the air that was already going into the engine. The amount of air that was getting into your intake before is greater than the amount of air that is getting in now after you sealed it off. How can the air flow be improved if you've stopped alot of it from getting into your engine? If you were achieving real RAM air then making the entire airbox air tight would help but you don't have real RAM air. I like the concept of your idea and I might attempt to do something like it myself but it goes against the laws of physics to say that your intake was actually improved over what you had before you sealed it off.

Second, with any CAI you will not feel that much of a difference in first gear. Sure they will help but the amount that you seem to be claiming is way too much. Especially since the amount improved over what you had is pretty minimal even before you sealed it off. And if you still claim to have more power now, after sealing it off, then I have to think that you want it to be improved so badly that you are convincing yourself that it is. Not trying to be a jerk or anything but after doing 6 hours of work on your car its not uncommon to overrate the results for youself.

[98 3.8]

Re: Homemade ram air

First, it is impossible to achieve real RAM air unless you're going extremely fast, well over 500mph.

Incorrect.

Second, with any CAI you will not feel that much of a difference in first gear.

Incorrect.


Since those were the first sentences in both your paragraphs, that's all I'm going to say.

edit: Actually, I thought I'd remind you that the air next to the radiator is hotter than the air outside the engine bay. ;)

[CamaroDude]

Re: Homemade ram air

You cannot just say incorrect and not back it up with anything. You can tell me I'm wrong all day if you want but I won't believe you until you've proved that i'm wrong. But whatever man, you car must defy the laws of phyisics because theres no other explanation. Your car must really be achieving RAM air at 60 mph and must really feel a huge boost of power even after you restricted the air flow.


By the way, i showed my friend who works at Meineke your set up and he said it looked like it would help with the intake a little but then he laughed when he saw the pic of how you sealed it off. Just thought you should know...

[T-Mill]

Re: Homemade ram air

meineke? lol

you don't have to believe him, he doesn't have to believe you it's not that big of a deal.

But if you want physics... it's not always about surface area when you are considering the amount of airflow that will be coming in. It's also the direction and speed of the air. Without the drier tubes, it would be ridiculous to block off the bottom of the airbox, that wouldn't make any sense. But with the airtubes, If you don't block it off, the stagnant air around the tubes, mixing with the flowing air coming through the tubes will basically spin the air into a vortex, cancelling out any advantage that was gained. True ram-air isn't achievable with this set-up, it would have to be absolutely air-tight and the tubes would have to be smoother, but it does bring cooler, denser, faster-moving air into the intake. I'm not saying that either of you are right, it is impossible to tell from just pictures, and physics doesn't say that blocking it off will definitely hurt, or help the set-up. When it comes to air, it's about quality just as much as quantity. A little cold, excited air, could be just as effective as alot of hot, stagnant air.

I think it's a good, clever idea, and like I said before, even if it didn't make any power, it still looks awesome.

[98 3.8]

Re: Homemade ram air

Okay, well I am putting up this post for myself under my friend's account because I don't want to set up an entire account just so I can show how this ram air system can actually work,and actually give an improvement.

For one, it does work as a CAI when going too slow for a "ram air" (something I will discuss later) effect to occur. We all know that cold air is denser air, denser air = more air meaning faster. Air outside of the car is much colder than the air in the engine compartment. So even when the car isn't going fast enough for a ram air effect, there is still cold air, and denser air being taken in by the engine.

Okay, now for the Ram air effect. I have actually done a ram air setup on a 99 Mustang GT (O NOEZ BLUE OVAL MAN IN THE F-BODY FORUMS! H4x!)
He had a boost gauge handy (just got rid of his supercharger after blowing his engine). He hooked it up to the intake setup and actually saw a VERY
small amount of boost when traveling at 70 MPH+. Now, we did have the system completely sealed off going into the airbox, which probably helped.
Now, this setup was one tube, that was 3" diameter. With this camaro setup, it is 2 tubes with 4" of diameter, so obviously flowing a lot more air. Even if the system is not completely sealed off, it will help the engine. All N/A engines run with a vacuum in the intake side, with the help of the air being forced into the engine, it eliminates the vacuum on the intake side, helping the engine breathe better.

Now, I could start forcing equations at you, since I am a Mechanical Engineering Major, and doing all that I can to learn about engine and automotive dynamics (including fluid dynamics (which includes air if u didn't know)), but if you would rather take the opinion of someone who works at meineke who knows how to turn a wrench and change my oil, and quivers at the sight of differential equations that actually prove something, then be my guest.

[99camaro-3.8]

Re: Homemade ram air

[lookout4theyeti]

Re: Homemade ram air

Okay, well I am putting up this post for myself under my friend's account because I don't want to set up an entire account just so I can show how this ram air system can actually work,and actually give an improvement.

For one, it does work as a CAI when going too slow for a "ram air" (something I will discuss later) effect to occur. We all know that cold air is denser air, denser air = more air meaning faster. Air outside of the car is much colder than the air in the engine compartment. So even when the car isn't going fast enough for a ram air effect, there is still cold air, and denser air being taken in by the engine.

Okay, now for the Ram air effect. I have actually done a ram air setup on a 99 Mustang GT (O NOEZ BLUE OVAL MAN IN THE F-BODY FORUMS! H4x!)
He had a boost gauge handy (just got rid of his supercharger after blowing his engine). He hooked it up to the intake setup and actually saw a VERY
small amount of boost when traveling at 70 MPH+. Now, we did have the system completely sealed off going into the airbox, which probably helped.
Now, this setup was one tube, that was 3" diameter. With this camaro setup, it is 2 tubes with 4" of diameter, so obviously flowing a lot more air. Even if the system is not completely sealed off, it will help the engine. All N/A engines run with a vacuum in the intake side, with the help of the air being forced into the engine, it eliminates the vacuum on the intake side, helping the engine breathe better.

Now, I could start forcing equations at you, since I am a Mechanical Engineering Major, and doing all that I can to learn about engine and automotive dynamics (including fluid dynamics (which includes air if u didn't know)), but if you would rather take the opinion of someone who works at meineke who knows how to turn a wrench and change my oil, and quivers at the sight of differential equations that actually prove something, then be my guest.

lol he did ask for you to prove your statements haha

[T-Mill]

Re: Homemade ram air

Hell yea, fluids!!! can't go wrong with the ME major... I agree completely, and let's all not forget, this is basically a prototype, sure he could make some improvements to make more hp gains, like a smoother tube, and more effort to make it airtight. but the fact is that no one ever gets it perfect the first time. I think he made a helluva mod, and as another ME major, I appreciate the thought process.

Another way to think of it... (for any smokers out there) If you blow smoke into the air, it'll only go so far, let's say 18", before it starts to spin and mix with the stagnant air in the room, but if you blow through a tube, let's say 24", it will go through the length of the tube and come out the other end at virtually the same speed and concentration... Sealing off the box from the ambient air will provide for the same effect.

[camnj99]

Re: Homemade ram air

when you did this you removed the washer fluid container do you think its possible to take it out and cut it down and make it smaller and reinstall it if u wanted to keep it???? like cutting a peice out of the middle and melting them back together?? curiosity...and i totaly agree with the me major!

[98 3.8]

Re: Homemade ram air

when you did this you removed the washer fluid container do you think its possible to take it out and cut it down and make it smaller and reinstall it if u wanted to keep it???? like cutting a peice out of the middle and melting them back together?? curiosity...and i totaly agree with the me major!

Yes it's possible.

[camnj99]

Re: Homemade ram air

im actually going to try to do this using aluminum piping if it comes out good i will deff put up pictures

[skorpion317]

Re: Homemade ram air

not a bad idea, but it won't work the way you intend it to, 98 3.8.

you have two problems here, of which i have personal experience with both.

#1: the shape of the ducting outlet. When the 1998 F-bodies came out, and aftermarket companies started designing airlids for them, MTI found out that the main problem with the stock airbox was the oval outlet. It created turbulence because of it's shape. That is why the aftermarket air lids have round outlets - it smooths the flow of air. Same principle applies to your ducting. The oval outlets aren't helping you at all.

#2: The Home Depot dryer ducting. I used this stuff for intake ducting on my '98 Camaro. It was a great idea at the time - cheap, flexible, etc. Unfortunately, the heat from the engine bay (and certainly from the radiator) begins to make the ducting brittle. It will tear after a month or so. Maybe the cooler air from outside might help, but sooner or later there will be a giant hole in the ducting, and any performance gains that may have been had will be gone.

sorry to burst your bubble.

[TheGr8Schlotzky]

Re: Homemade ram air

heater ducting ftw!

whatever it still looks awesome