200 dry shot.

[phoenix64]

So the last time I posted about this it got delted for the reason "don't go cheap on nitrous". My intention is not to go cheap.

The idea is to run a 200hp dry shot, then use hptuners to add fuel, through oversize injectors, in my case 43lb's. You don't have the backfire problems, you get more equal distribution, no need for direct port.

The reason I'm bringing this up again is that I was just reading a book on the design and devolepment of the LS1, and a compiliation of performance bolt on results. Excelent book BTW. Anyways in the book they suggest that wet kits only be used under 150hp shots, and anything over that switch to dry, the exact opposite advice you get on this board.

Anyways just thinking out loud. Wondering why no one has tried this? Seems it would be far cheaper than direct port.

[malice10985]

I was gonna do a 100 dry shot with my 7psi turbo, and the guys at the local speed shop almost punched me.

They said that wet is the only way to go with boost. We often worry about fuel puddling in the intake, but with the boosted air rushing into the intake, "the fuel will be carried where it needs to go."

[StudlyCamaro]

who said spraying over a 150 shot wet was a good idea? thats just asking for a backfire out the intake manifold

why hasn't anyone sprayed a 200 dry shot? no one has a motor that will take a 200 shot that i know of right now

[T-Punk]

if you build the motor with forged internals it might hold it but even then a 200 shot is gonna be very violent.

[97rs4life]

just do a two stage setup with dry then. Do 100 shot of the line and then add the next 100 once rolling along. There wouldn't be the instant 200 shot impact, but 100 at a time. This might be a little easier on the built engine then.

[1DangerousV6]

the ONLY way i would run a shot that high is direct port..no other way..which take it from me..is NOT easy on our cars..i've spent..i dunno..a month or so?..figuring out what it would take..i also would not do it without a progressive controller..also..dont forget..the CAR has to built for it too..not just the motor..as for the fuel..im wondering if the Keene/Bell boost-a-pump only powered on when you hit the juice would work IF you were set on doing this dry [img]smile.gif[/img]

[phoenix64]

Originally posted by malice10985:
I was gonna do a 100 dry shot with my 7psi turbo, and the guys at the local speed shop almost punched me.

They said that wet is the only way to go with boost. We often worry about fuel puddling in the intake, but with the boosted air rushing into the intake, "the fuel will be carried where it needs to go."

When you hit the button your boost would probably hit 10psi. Thats a lot of power, I don't know if you could get away with that on pump gas.

Did they happen to say why you should run a wet shot?

I think the stock motor would take it, the more I study tuning, the more I realize that 99% of engine failures were knock or lean condition related.

If a stock LS1 short block can take 750hp worth of nitrous I think a 3.8 could take 400hp. On C-16 of course.

[phoenix64]

Originally posted by 1DangerousV6:
the ONLY way i would run a shot that high is direct port..no other way.

Why?

As for fuel, I think the stock pump would do just fine with properly sized injectors.

[12secondv6]

Ok...... you understand that on dry kits they use riased fuel psi through vaccum and injectors to compensate for fuel requirements.

Think of a COMPLETELY build forged engine.....we still focus back on the fuel system.

For a 200 dry shot you would need a much higher lb per hr fuel injector, correct?

Now... the nitrous would, obviously, not be used all the time.

What would you do N/A with those MONSTER injectors?

Make sense?

As for posts in nitrous section being deleted.... it happens VERY RARELY and must be something COMPLETELY off the way and WAY out of bounds for me to lock it/ delete it

[12secondv6]

And.... no.... stock pump won't handle a 200 dry shot.

[phoenix64]

You can do just fine with over size injectors if you have a way of programing it. With 43lb injectors and a stock fuel pump, I can flood my engine at 12psi of boost, A/F in the 9's, and I have gotten 28mpg freeway with 3.42's. Whats wrong with that? Part throttle is as good if not better than stock.

If you don't jack up the pressure its not that much harder on the fuel pump. edit: Not saying its a good idea, just that I've done it, at ZZP's recomedation.

I wasn't talking about a "kit" I was talking stock fuel pressure, add fuel with the injectors only.

I think that is the biggest problem with dry kits, they just jack the fuel pressure. Its like an FMU, it works, but not well.

[ March 03, 2005, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: phoenix64 ]

[12secondv6]

Ok... for your programming.... would you run 2 tunes?

A nitrous tune and a seperate N/A tune?

When I ran the 120 dry kit... and stock fuel pump... w/ or w/o the kenne bell boost a pump turned to 50% increase.... I saw fuel psi of just under 90 psi?

Fuel psi was not a concern.

I dunno man....... I don't know ANY nitrous racer who would EVER think about a 200 dry shot

[malice10985]

Originally posted by phoenix64:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by malice10985:
I was gonna do a 100 dry shot with my 7psi turbo, and the guys at the local speed shop almost punched me.

They said that wet is the only way to go with boost. We often worry about fuel puddling in the intake, but with the boosted air rushing into the intake, "the fuel will be carried where it needs to go."

When you hit the button your boost would probably hit 10psi. Thats a lot of power, I don't know if you could get away with that on pump gas.

Did they happen to say why you should run a wet shot?

I think the stock motor would take it, the more I study tuning, the more I realize that 99% of engine failures were knock or lean condition related.

If a stock LS1 short block can take 750hp worth of nitrous I think a 3.8 could take 400hp. On C-16 of course. </font>[/QUOTE]He said that a dry shot with boost would be putting too much faith in your injectors. It would take all the King's Dynos and all the Kings men to try and tune the fuel program to add an appropriate fuel quantity. I don't have $5,000 to spend on wideband dyno tuning.

[phoenix64]

I was thinking you could just spray the nitrous before the MAF, and scale the maf to add the fuel needed. Or set the TP enrichment to add a % of fuel at WOT.

I don't mean to be doubting the wisdom of the nitrous guru's on this board. The reason I'm asking about this stuff is because my friend just got a sponsorship for his 4.3L S10. So his engine is expendable. I thought a 200 shot would be fun, and a wet kit might puddle.......

I think you guys might be underestimating the L36 though. Its just when I saw that an LS1 could withstand 750hp on stock cast pistons I was shocked, made me wonder how far you could go with a good tune, and a dry kit.

Just out of curiousity how many people on here have destroyed a motor with power alone? No detonation, or running lean?


Yeah that is a lot of faith to be putting in your injectors, but maybe if they were flow matched, and brand new.......? I just realized this would turn into a very expensive project....

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

the only thing i have to say in this is..... i have been runing 57# injectors N/A for 2000 miles with a mail order tune.... city driving i get about 16MPG and highy only i get about 33-35 MPG.

i have tweaked the idle out some to add less fuel...... cause it was so rich but is NEVER staled