MAP tuning

[LETZRIDE]

Is it possible to tune our cars using a MAP rather then a MAF? The design I have in mind for the intake manifold at the moment, involves two throttle bodies and I am not sure how I will be able to tune using the Maf sensor...I think it would be easier to use a MAP...what would I need to set this up?

[Fondle]

Re: MAP tuning

what idea do you have that uses two throttle bodies?

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

its using the lower holden manifold...not 100% sure how I will be orienting it yet...we're building the UIM from scratch...but I do know at the moment I would like to utilize twin throttle bodies...but tuning looks like it could be a PITA...I'm waiting on a bunch of parts to get here so I can begin taking measurements...and I am trying to think ahead to tuning, and possibly tuning it by MAP rather then MAF...

[ssms5411]

Re: MAP tuning

I wouldn't use 2 just maybe a 75mm, I think ZZP has northstar TB's if it will fit and just maf tune it, 97's I don't think respond well to not using the maf to tune.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

I wouldn't use 2 just maybe a 75mm, I think ZZP has northstar TB's if it will fit and just maf tune it, 97's I don't think respond well to not using the maf to tune.

My thinking is, two smaller tb's will flow more and faster then one big tb...I know some of the v8's do speed density tuning...I know we have a MAP sensor as it is...Just looking at my options as I begin to theorize the shape that this manifold is going to take...

[Fondle]

Re: MAP tuning

where would you fit two throttle bodys?

[97rs4life]

Re: MAP tuning

where would you fit two throttle bodys?

on his custom upper intake. ;)

LETZRIDE:

Here is what you are after as far as design which is a dual tb holden intake.



Are you sticking to NA or are you gonna FI it? If NA you would need a big cam or something to have a need for dual tb's or it will be a waste.

I would run 1 tb off the front of the upper intake like our stockers if I were to make one. Or if you are set on the side tb, maybe look into a passenger side setup instead of a driver's side. Might be some more room there to route the intake instead of moving the power steering reservoir

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

on his custom upper intake. ;)

I would run 1 tb off the front of the upper intake like our stockers if I were to make one. Or if you are set on the side tb, maybe look into a passenger side setup instead of a driver's side. Might be some more room there to route the intake instead of moving the power steering reservoir

I actually intend on trying to run the TB at the front...to be honest I am looking at more of a design similar to this (which is from FTV6) but not quite as big, and not as bulky...


or this



Of course we are also going to be looking into maybe going with a 1.7 roller rocker to increase the lift of the ARH cam...this is all just what I am visualizing right now...bottom line is it will come down to the measurements...I will be going about the intake and exhaust tuning using the helmholtz theory to do it (see my NA boost thread) ...until I get the heads and LIM at my door (they are on there way) I really can't do much...everything is going to boil down to the calculations and numbers...

One of the things I need to consider is MAP tuning and if it is possible or not...because especially if I go with something like the first pic, with two seperate manifolds, and Tbs...tuning with the MAF is going to be next to impossible as far as I can see...

I don't want to jump too far ahead of myself and wait until I begin building and have all the number finalized...only to find out I may be screwed tuning this thing...

I don't think that the double tb's will be a problem, if I keep the tb's small enough...remember, smaller tb's flow less air, but faster...If I do something like the first pic (only smaller) I could run 1 manifold per 3 cylinders...again, the mathematics will let me know if this will be overkill and will hurt performance. And yes, I know if I do something like the second pic, the alt will have to be moved...I have no A/c, so we can make a bracket and stick it there...

I am not ruling out just 1 TB yet...like I said, it is going to come down to the mathematical numbers and what will work best...not what will look coolest under the hood...but I would really love to have twins sitting under there :P

[97rs4life]

Re: MAP tuning

maybe a standalone system is in store for you and your tuning needs then. Might open it up more for you than HPTuners as htpuners has a lot of the v6 tables locked yet and they are done updating our v6 programs. There is a hidden table that prevents me from running CL on my car, I have to run it OL at all times to perform correctly. No biggy as I have the MAF tuned perfectly

[ssms5411]

Re: MAP tuning

I actually intend on trying to run the TB at the front...to be honest I am looking at more of a design similar to this (which is from FTV6) but not quite as big, and not as bulky...


or this



Of course we are also going to be looking into maybe going with a 1.7 roller rocker to increase the lift of the ARH cam...this is all just what I am visualizing right now...bottom line is it will come down to the measurements...I will be going about the intake and exhaust tuning using the helmholtz theory to do it (see my NA boost thread) ...until I get the heads and LIM at my door (they are on there way) I really can't do much...everything is going to boil down to the calculations and numbers...

One of the things I need to consider is MAP tuning and if it is possible or not...because especially if I go with something like the first pic, with two seperate manifolds, and Tbs...tuning with the MAF is going to be next to impossible as far as I can see...

I don't want to jump too far ahead of myself and wait until I begin building and have all the number finalized...only to find out I may be screwed tuning this thing...

I don't think that the double tb's will be a problem, if I keep the tb's small enough...remember, smaller tb's flow less air, but faster...If I do something like the first pic (only smaller) I could run 1 manifold per 3 cylinders...again, the mathematics will let me know if this will be overkill and will hurt performance. And yes, I know if I do something like the second pic, the alt will have to be moved...I have no A/c, so we can make a bracket and stick it there...

I am not ruling out just 1 TB yet...like I said, it is going to come down to the mathematical numbers and what will work best...not what will look coolest under the hood...but I would really love to have twins sitting under there :P

Those look badd@ss , throw some turbos on them and your set.LOL

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

maybe a standalone system is in store for you and your tuning needs then. Might open it up more for you than HPTuners as htpuners has a lot of the v6 tables locked yet and they are done updating our v6 programs. There is a hidden table that prevents me from running CL on my car, I have to run it OL at all times to perform correctly. No biggy as I have the MAF tuned perfectly

Don't say that...standalones are $$$...and I just spent the money to buy Hptuners this year...

This kind of sucks...so does this mean There is no way to tune via MAP or speed density? I'm stuck tuning only through VE tables and MAF tables? I thought there was speed density available through the VE table or something? (I don't really know how speed density works, I think it requires more credits, so I dont know if more stuff gets unlocked?)

otherwise if I run two tb's maybe I have to splice the maf sensors together...I can't see that working out very well though...

[97rs4life]

Re: MAP tuning

I believe Lynxs got it to work with his turbo car, but it wasn't an easy task at all. Some of the holden cars are running off the MAP and eliminate the MAF but they use a different software than HPtuners down under and different stock computer to achieve their SD

[steddy]

Re: MAP tuning

Those look badd@ss , throw some turbos on them and your set.LOL

I'd almost say the pic on the bottom, the TBs are getting plumbed from dual turbos (1 each)

[ssms5411]

Re: MAP tuning

I thought like the 99' and up pcm's can use SD but 97'-98' can't, because I think of the different maf in the TB's, the way it is setup. Thats what I think don't know for sure, but Hptuners doesn't have credits to buy for SD tunning on 3.8's. I like using the maf myself.

[ssms5411]

Re: MAP tuning

I'd almost say the pic on the bottom, the TBs are getting plumbed from dual turbos (1 each)

If it is thats one mean setup that looks bad@ss.