MAP tuning

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

ya, I'm kinda bad at explaining things...Reading about the gains on Ls1's is what makes me even more interested about this setup...

Heres a few pics of it fitting on a f-body (v8)







and heres a vid of the guy who got his car running...just idle though... http://www.fbodypages.com/Jason/Videos/intake.wmv

there was also a bunch of guys saying something like with just 1 tb you get something like 8cm of air flow to each cylinder because they compete for air...(depending on the size of the tb), but with the ITB setup you get 23cm of air flow to each cylinder...

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

Guys, what is Alpha-N tuning, and are we able to achieve this with Hp tuners? I've been reading about tuning this setup, and alot of guys are saying that this is a must?

[caspernicus]

Re: MAP tuning

Alpha n is based on rpm and tps.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

ok, so 2 questions then...Hp tuners is able to do this right? we do have a table that has add fuel vs RPM that is what I would need/use?

2) How could I setup a Tps on 6 throttle bodies? How is our tps sensor setup? Is it possible to adapt our tps sensor to just one of the 6 throttle bodies?...They would all be opening at the same time, at the same amount...How hard would this be?

[97rs4life]

Re: MAP tuning

you would need a rod connecting them all and then the tps mounted on the end to read the position

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

The rod part is fairly easy to do...I dont know how our Tps fits on our throttle bodies though, how does the sensor read?

and, Travis, since you have the holden intake manifold you'll know what I am talking about...You know how the runners on the LIM are staggered ever so slightly...If I put the throttle bodies in a straight line coming off the side of that LIM...do you think that .5-1inch stagger will make a difference for air flow, and uneven flow to 3 cylinders?

[97rs4life]

Re: MAP tuning

the tps is turned by a flat metal blade on the holden tb.

As for the runners, why not run 3 on each side and keep the runners the same length then? Then for the tb blades run a rod to the other bank of tb's to synchronize them together. Have the tps then mounted on one set of them

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

the tps is turned by a flat metal blade on the holden tb.

As for the runners, why not run 3 on each side and keep the runners the same length then? Then for the tb blades run a rod to the other bank of tb's to synchronize them together. Have the tps then mounted on one set of them

I'll be using our stock tps if possible...I dont have the holden UIM or tb...I was thinking of running 3 on each side, the only thing that makes me hesitate about that is the tuning issue again...if I am going to use the maf, then I need to connect all 6 throttle bodies to a box which will go to a collector tube then to a filter...If I have tbs on both sides it makes it a little more difficult...I could run two tubes, but the air would be slower getting to the passenger side then it will be getting to the drivers side I think...unless I run 3 off each side like the v8 setup, and put the maf almost right behind one of those filters and multiply the maf table by 2. The only issue I have with that is that, by putting a maf in one side and not the other, I am impeding the airflow on oneside only...unless I put a dummy maf sensor on the other side to lol...OR, my other idea was possibly making the 3 tbs that would be closest to the drivers side be slightly higher then the further tbs...so they would all be inline with each other, but 3 would be slightly higher then the bottom three...then I would have 2 bars going through each of the 3 sets of tbs, and connect it to 1 common throttle mechanism...

[pace2006]

Re: MAP tuning

So many possibilities. It's good to see some people on these boards still have dreams and are working to make those a reality. I'll be lurking in this thread, as I'm interested in seeing how it all turns out. Good luck, Mike. Contrary to what some have said, nothing's a waste so long as you're learning and actually trying to make something of it.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

So many possibilities. It's good to see some people on these boards still have dreams and are working to make those a reality. I'll be lurking in this thread, as I'm interested in seeing how it all turns out. Good luck, Mike. Contrary to what some have said, nothing's a waste so long as you're learning and actually trying to make something of it.

Thanks Pace, I've posted on a number of forums in an effort to get information...this site seems to give me the most...a few other sites think I'm nuts...literally

I really wish that we had some other way to tune the car other then through the MAF...it really seems to be a pain trying to figure out how to make this work...all the other issues I can think of at this time can be worked around through design...I know the v8 guys have said that the air boxes for ITBs really kills the power...when Harrop posted that they got 65rwhp over the FAST 90 manifolds it was without the air boxes you see in the pictures. When they dynoed the ITBs with the air boxes, I didn't get a number, but apparently it was knocked down to being in the FAST 90 manifold territory. I dont know how much the fast manifolds put down either, all I know is alot of v8 guys swear by them...

My heads have been delayed in the mail...hopefully they are here tommorrow, and I can have measurements by thursday/friday, and begin to get the ball rolling on this. And you are right...there are so many possibilities it is crazy...I've been thinking about different combinations of things all day...the problem is trying to figure out which one will most likely work best.

If anyone has ideas or thoughts throw em on the table, seriously...positive or negative...just try to explain your reasoning...

[pace2006]

Re: MAP tuning

I cringe at the thought of steering away from our proven HP Tuners, but should the tuning with a custom TB setup not be possible with that suite, have you considered a standalone tuning program? I know it's viewed as a lesser method compared to our pcm-based tuning, but could something like Megasquirt or AEMPro provide more options for tuning a custom setup like this?

I don't know a lot about standalone tuning with a more modern pcm setup like ours. I've only seen it used for older fuel injected conversions and custom applications (ie. Datsun Z cars and 2jz swapped cars). Just throwing some loose ideas out there.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

yes, actually most of the other types of cars that are running ITBs (hondas, VW, etc) are all using standalones, and quite a few are using megasquirt...I intend on FORCING Hp tuners to get the job done, I don't care if I have to start pulling circuitry apart and randomly start soldering connections...I just bought it for over 600$ and am starting to get comfortable with it...I don't want to just toss Hp tuners to the side like that...I'll make it work...Standalone systems get very expensive, very quick. Besides, other then the Maf issue, hp tuners has everything we need to tune this kind of setup...heck, we can skew the fuel to each individual cylinder if need be. I am sure if I play around with it enough, I can probably get a tune working using the TPS vs RPM like suggested, as well as using the main VE tables...I'm thinking right now that I may just set it up to use air boxes so that it can use a MAF (as a backup), and then will work on the VE and add vs Rpm tables so that I can remove those air boxes and just run filters off the air stacks.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: MAP tuning

Just a little update for those interested...I recieved the heads the other day...went to my buddies house today with the parts, we took at a look at everything...discussed everything... ... ... and... the Project is a GO!!

He's working a ton right now, and finishing up on a civic project he started, so there is not much time to start my project at the moment, plus I need to source out a few parts that we will need to get started...Look for this project to take place over the winter break...I'll be doing a dyno pull both before and after the install to compare results.

We're foregoing the air boxes and MAF...tuning will be done via the VE table, as well as that Alpha-N tuning, as they call it...we'll filter each stack individually....