Running rich after powerdyne.

[OneEightSeven]

Hey gang. Got the powerdyne installed and I'm running rich now. I used the FMU with the stock injectors just for testing (getting 42lb injectors ASAP, hopefully next week) and I'm running rich as hell at wot. Idle is perfect. At WOT my AEM wideband indicates 11.2-11.8 (low to high rpm.) It used to be around 12.4-12.8 when the car was N/A. I can smell the gas (no cat) and my buddy chasing me in his GTI said i was definitely spitting a little fuel/smoke out.

My HP Tuners scanner logged 0 KR, but my injector duty is now spiking to 89% in 3rd gear at 6200RPM!

Where should I start looking at this setup for tuning the WOT AFR? I'm still learning HP Tuners and have been reading through the manual most nights just to understand things better. I think I need some advice for where to start looking, once I have some direction I should be able to figure out the rest, but starting on my own just feels daunting/scary. Any advice for tuning for WOT with wideband would be very appreciated!

On a side note, the care definitely feels faster. My buddy said his GTI (stage 2 turbo/tuning mods) feels slow now and I had a minor scare around a corner when I punched it too hard =). No worries though, I like sliding so I just input a tiny bit of steering and throttle and came out clean, just wasn't expecting it to happen.

[ssms5411]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

You want your A/F to be around 11.5 so you need to adjust your PE just alitte bit. Congrats on the install.

[OneEightSeven]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

You want your A/F to be around 11.5 so you need to adjust your PE just alitte bit. Congrats on the install.

Thanks! Ah I see, so I'm not actually that far off A/F wise. I will play with the PE when I leave tonight for the ride home.

I didn't realize I needed a much lower A/F for a FI application. Thought it would be similar to N/A A/F wise. I'm going to check belt tightness tonight when I drive back home (drove it to the office today and had my HP tuners logging the whole ride) and schedule some dyno time =). Also getting water/meth when I come back from my trip to new york (leaving next week.)

[ssms5411]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

You can run it leaner but risk the chance of blowing up something, by running it richer you can add more timing to a point.

[OneEightSeven]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

How much timing do you think would be safe to run? I'm not seeing KR but my sensor are desensitized (resistor mod) about 50%. I'm at 25 now.

[ssms5411]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

During the summer I colud only run 8 degrees timing , winter was like 12-13 degrees. This was with the AZ heat though.

[OneEightSeven]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

Those seem like real low numbers. Houston isn't much cooler I imagine. I think my timing at wot is 25 right now. I'm not hearing or seeing any KR on the VCM scanner. Do you think I'm running too much timing? I remember you saying you ran 28 degrees of timing in one of your older posts.

*Edit:

So I tested the car out after work. I seem to be pulling a little more boost now (belt adjusted) and my fuel press shows around 90psi at 6200RPM and my injector duty went up from 89 to 95. And now I'm leaner (just a little) around 11.5-11.8. After the car got heat soaked i started getting 1-4 (4 at most for 1/2 second) KR at around 2-3k rpm then it would go away after that till shift point. So the timing would retard to about 21 at the lowest from 25. Do you think I should lower the timing for lower RPMs?

Do you think it's false knock? I thought knock would get worse at higher rpms, not lower? The KR graph would spike up and then go down as the revs built. Cool engine it doesn't seem to do it at all.

I'm definitely parking it until I get the following installed: meth kit, injectors, boost gauge and new piping to use the airbox (my airbox is whisper lid + fast toys ram air).

[WarShrike]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

More air = more fuel. So the more air crammed into the cylinder before the valve closes to start the compression stroke means you'll need a lower AFR (more fuel per one part of air).

Get injectors on there asap. Are you going to get a dyno tune done?

[Watazz]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

Afr anywhere between 11-12 youre fine. I would think 25* is way too much. I'm in va running18 on a good day. Snd thats when it isnt sweltering outside. You need to make sure you have timing in the right places.

[ssms5411]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

Those seem like real low numbers. Houston isn't much cooler I imagine. I think my timing at wot is 25 right now. I'm not hearing or seeing any KR on the VCM scanner. Do you think I'm running too much timing? I remember you saying you ran 28 degrees of timing in one of your older posts.

*Edit:

So I tested the car out after work. I seem to be pulling a little more boost now (belt adjusted) and my fuel press shows around 90psi at 6200RPM and my injector duty went up from 89 to 95. And now I'm leaner (just a little) around 11.5-11.8. After the car got heat soaked i started getting 1-4 (4 at most for 1/2 second) KR at around 2-3k rpm then it would go away after that till shift point. So the timing would retard to about 21 at the lowest from 25. Do you think I should lower the timing for lower RPMs?

Do you think it's false knock? I thought knock would get worse at higher rpms, not lower? The KR graph would spike up and then go down as the revs built. Cool engine it doesn't seem to do it at all.

I'm definitely parking it until I get the following installed: meth kit, injectors, boost gauge and new piping to use the airbox (my airbox is whisper lid + fast toys ram air).

I ran 28 degrees , when I was N/A, 25 degrees is high.

[OneEightSeven]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

I ran 28 degrees , when I was N/A, 25 degrees is high.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm going to tune down to around 15*, let the car get hot then tune up/down through the RPM range until I see 0* KR at max advance. Do you usually use a single value through the RPM range (that's how my car got tuned by my tuner, it has 25 across all RPM) or do you map a separate value per RPM range?

Afr anywhere between 11-12 youre fine. I would think 25* is way too much. I'm in va running18 on a good day. Snd thats when it isnt sweltering outside. You need to make sure you have timing in the right places.

Yea it seems like once the car got hot 25* became too much. On a cold start it was showing 0* KR but after a few passes that changed and I stopped. I'm going to tune it down.

More air = more fuel. So the more air crammed into the cylinder before the valve closes to start the compression stroke means you'll need a lower AFR (more fuel per one part of air).

Get injectors on there asap. Are you going to get a dyno tune done?

Definitely scheduling some dyno time once I'm back from New York =D. I have a feeling I'm going to do so more than once even :). The shop I use is only 4-5 minutes from my new house and it's now always tempting to keep dyno'ing when making mods =D.

I realize that more air means more fuel is needed. I just didn't realize the air/fuel ratio needed to be richer for FI. Injectors are coming on there before any dyno time happens and I'm ordering parts next week when I get to New York so they're waiting for me when I get back.

[OneEightSeven]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

So I saved a log of my run and the current tune. I tried tuning down a bit, but once the car is hot I'm still getting a little KR. I'm going to try lowering more, but I can tell the car was noticeably faster on the higher timing while it was cold (before engine gets hot and KR starts.) Steve, do you think a meth kit would benefit me a lot? I think routing the intake to the whisper lid and fast toys ram air should cool it down a bit too. It really only starts once it gets hot.

http://rootit.org/camaro/06.18.2011.....Low.Spark.hpl

http://rootit.org/camaro/06.18.2011.....Low.Spark.hpt

[ssms5411]

Re: Running rich after powerdyne.

I think methanol would do you well once the engine is hot.