My Bird pwns the Hypertech!

[zlexiss]

Background thread on my HPP3 results here

So, I've been emailing a bit with Hypertech about my lack of dyno results. I finally get back this answer:

The customer has a baseline power curve that is much higher than the baseline power curve for the vehicle we tested. The power curve also has a slightly different shape overall (i.e. more torque in the lower Rpms). This may be due to the additional modifications that are done to the vehicle. With the factory tuning, the customer's car made 24HP and 26ft-lbs more than our stock vehicle with no modifications. Although our dyno runs were made in early March of 2001, I do not believe that the typical minor differences between dyno facilities (i.e. correction factors, dyno calibration, etc.) can account for such a difference in power especially when considering the low RPM torque differences between the two dyno curves.

After reviewing the supplied dyno curve, I do not believe that our tuning should be used on this customer's vehicle. The performance gains are very nice for this application with a stock vehicle, but this does not appear to hold true with these modifications.

Of course, Hypertech themselves says:

Hypertech Power Tuning is calibrated for stock or near-stock engines (engines equipped with high-flow air filters and cat-back exhaust systems).

And I believe I fall into the "bolt-on intake and exhaust mods" category.

So, now to see what else I can do, partial refund or something like that.

[Ex-5.0]

Jeff,
What Hypertech's dyno curves don't tell is what temp t-stat they used for their 87 octane and 93 octane tuning. I suspect that their baseline car is stock with 195 degree t-stat and their 87 oct and 93 oct tuning has a 160 degree stat, thus the big gains they show. A good question would be what would the dyno curve be with stock tuning and a 160 or 180 degree t-stat.

What I noticed with my HPP3, with 87 oct tuning and set for 195 degree t-stat is a slight SOTP improvement especially from 3500 - 5000 rpm. The exhaust tone seems harsher in that rpm range also.
I don't think it was worth the $325 or so I paid for it. I do like the lower fan turn on temps as now my temp guage stays just below 210 no matter what, instead of wiggling up and down to either side of 210 like it did stock. I assume it is really running at 195-200 all the time, which is fine by me. After having it on for a couple of years now I also think I hear some slight ping in real hot weather from 2500-3000 rpm at part throttle, using 87 oct fuel.

Another thing that is a bit suspicious about Hypertech's stock dyno curves is the hp and torque below 2500 rpm. Their test car is listed as a 2001 RS automatic with 3.08 gearing. How can an automatic be loaded up to full throttle at low rpm's? At full throttle my car is always above 2500 rpm as that is the stall speed of the torque converter. (I think 3.08 geared automatics use a different converter with lower stall speed, but you still couldn't get power curves down below 1500 rpm.) The 2001 RS also used the z/28 muffler so it is not truely representative of a completely stock v6.

[TheGreenPunisher]

On the note about the 3.08 automatics using a different converter...im not sure....but mine stalls around 1700-1800ish

[foff667]

Originally posted by Ex-5.0:
Their test car is listed as a 2001 RS automatic with 3.08 gearing. How can an automatic be loaded up to full throttle at low rpm's? At full throttle my car is always above 2500 rpm as that is the stall speed of the torque converter. (I think 3.08 geared automatics use a different converter with lower stall speed, but you still couldn't get power curves down below 1500 rpm.) The 2001 RS also used the z/28 muffler so it is not truely representative of a completely stock v6.

fwiw you can lock the converter from any rpm using hptuners and would assume you could do the same with tech2 so "loading it" wouldnt be a problem

[zlexiss]

Ex-5:
I'm not sure the thermo would be responsible for that much gain. I've got a 180* (+drilled) in mine.

[Ex-5.0]

What I'm saying is that your car would not be as strong as your baseline run if it had the 195 t-stat and stock 227 degree fan turn-on temp.

I just think that much of Hypertech's claimed power increase is from the lower temp rather than the "tuning."

Also, an M5 car has less driveline loss than an automatic.

It very well could be that: 180 degree stat + M5 trans + lid + MAF screen + hi-flow cat + exhaust/muffler = 24 HP and 26 ft-lbs, thus your baseline.

It is generally aknowledged that the HPP3 tuning leans up the fuel which would be wrong for the improved breathing from the exhaust and minor intake mods that you have.

[Chris Camaro]

i bought my hypertech a while ago, i got 3 inch exauhst and high flow intake cold air, and i didnt notice difference if any, what am i doing wrong? i just bought the 160 thermostat, but my car is a 2000, im told the hypertech wont get rid of whatever code is going to come up, is that true? did i waste my money on the hypertech, or did i just do somthin wrong

[98Camaro3.8]

Originally posted by Chris Camaro:
what am i doing wrong?

You bought a Hypertech Power Programmer. HPP = crap.

Originally posted by Chris Camaro:
did i waste my money on the hypertech

Yes.

[AZ3.8Camaro]

Jeff, you really do have a factory freak, this proves it.

[zlexiss]

Some followup:

I think the HPP did something. But what it's not doing is reinstalling the stock programming when I tell it to.

For Memorial weekend I followed a friend up to Pinetop to relax in the coolness. On the way there and back I ran the car up to 120-125 mph more than a couple times, on downhill, level, and uphill grades.

Funny thing was, I had programmed the car back to stock a couple weeks before that, when I took it to the dealer to get the brake master cylinder replaced (extended warranty!). I _know_ before I ever got the HPP that my car was limited to 112, I had hit it a few times.

I'm pretty sure from looking at temps that my fans are still turning on at lower temps too.

Reverified I had stock tuning before I sold the HPP this week - sure enough, car was programmed to stock according to HPP. I plugged it in, and it didn't have to verify the VIN. Did a programming run (everything set to "N"), unhooked, then a second run ("Y to return to factory spec") to make sure it was unlocked before I sent it out.

So, how come my "stock" computer still has no speed limiter?

Well, I'm done messing with it. I'm thinking about plunking $100 a paycheck into it, for heads/cam/headers/DHP all done right. Once I get the DHP, I'd love to see what's actually in there compared to what should be there for stock.

But I need to buy a house too, so my money's prob going there first..