Shocks and springs installed :-D

[OneEightSeven]

Got my shocks & springs installed on thursday:

http://wbhd.net/wp-content/gallery/c...s/dsc_7522.jpg
http://wbhd.net/wp-content/gallery/c...s/img_0004.jpg
http://wbhd.net/wp-content/gallery/c...dsc_7501_1.jpg

Hotchkis springs (1? Drop), Bilstein SLP shocks and MOOG Lower Control Arm bushings.

The car is driving totally differently now. It's much more responsive. I feel a lot more little bumps now, but at least the car doesn't bounce when hitting big bumps. I've also had no wheel hop so far with this setup which is really nice.

Next I'm doing sway bars which should be nice too :). What would be a good setup? I was thinking 35 and 22 combo from UMI. Is the 22 rear going to cause too much oversteer?

[BallerMaro13]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

nice moderate drop --- not too much, not too little. baller approved.

should be nice for daily driving, yes, but i would continue with the supporting mods such as an adjustable panhard rod, lca relocation brackets, and subframe connectors.

your sway bars will make a difference for sure, but research your decision --- a 32mm front/21mm rear combo is plenty big.

[ssms5411]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

I ran a ST35mm and a 21mm rear and it felt great with Eibachs at the time. I switch to a 32mm hollow front and kept the 21mm rear and now it seems more sloppy up front even with a FE2 R&P. So I would recomend a 35mm and 22mm rear sway if your looking for some great handling since you got the shocks and springs already. Looks good.

[pace2006]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

Glad to hear you're enjoying the setup. Sam knows best when it comes to these cars.

32/19 would probably be a good neutral balance with those Hotchkis springs. I tend to shy away from anything bigger than that in the rear. Too much back there and you'll see oversteer, especially in wet and emergency conditions. You can find a NOS 32mm bar on ebay for $40. Rear you can pick up pretty cheap from a V8 car.

If you want a bigger bar setup, talk to Sam about his hollow 35mm front bars. I'd still lean toward a smaller 19mm rear bar to match this. I prefer to have a little understeer vs oversteer with these cars.

As for other supporting suspension mods, just play it piece by piece. I'm sure you noticed the car's just fine without an adjustable panhard bar, or haven't found a need for LCA relocation brackets (unless you're having issues with tires rubbing). IMO, it's better to just get the parts you need, rather than adding to the mod list and taking away from the wallet. I'd be more concerned with replacing worn bushings than getting a set of SFCs.

[FirebirdGT]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

What matters is the spring rate you are using - not the manufacturer or drop.

The larger the rear bar the more oversteer is induced.


My setup:

Lowering Springs ( front: 1” 351 lb/in, rear: 1” 80/137 lb/in ) (Eibach Pro-Kit p/n 3831.240)

35mm Solid Sway Bar (Suspension Techniques p/n 50080) w/ Poly Endlinks

19mm Sway Bar (GM) w/ Endlinks (Energy Suspension) w/ 1LE 2.5” spacer (yes, the spacer is important)

"runs on rails"
.

[silversixx]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

I have the suspension techniques 35&22, eibach springs and bilstein HD shocks and love it. Handles like a cat on carpet. You might have to get lca relocation brackets, you will know if you have to because the lower control arm will be angled torwards the front of the car. Does this make sense?

[OneEightSeven]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

Thanks for all the replies! I do understand the dynamics of the sway bars as a concept. As the size of the rear bar approaches the size of the front bar you have more oversteer especially with throttle input. Since I've never tuned a suspension on an fbody before I don't know exactly how each configuration would feel and what ratios front to back work well. Which is I guess what I'm asking. I am concerned that the car overall could become too stiff with big bars (ie 35/22). I don't want it to be too difficult to tell when the car starts to break away into a skid. This seems to be the problem with many overly "tight" sports cars, especially mid engine ones. Think MR2 Turbo, when it starts to skid it spins...... often into a tree.

I guess now I'm considering trying 32/19 since it's a cheap setup to build then going 35/21 or 35/22 if I'm not content.

@BallerMaro13:

I might have to add "Baller Approved" to my signature :-D. Sam didn't recommend LCA relocation or the adjustable panhard rod unless I had problems with the setup. It's because the drop was minor. He did suggest LCA relocation if I'm drag racing as it would improve linear traction, but hurt cornering.

I am going to be replacing control arms as bushings wear out since it's cheap stuff. Front LCA has new MOOG bushings though so that should last. I have considered chassis stiffening and strut mounts brace too. Does anyone make a rear strut mount brace for our cars?

@ssms5411:

With 35/22 how easy is it to tell when the car is about to lose traction in the rear and swing out? I'm riding on 275/40/17's so they do grip well on dry pavement.

@pace2006:

I'm thinking about trying 32/19 since price seems right and it may be a good combo to start with. I can always get rid of it and go 35/22. The car is fine without pahnard bar and LCA relocation. I think all other stuff (control arms, etc..) will be replaced as they go bad.

@FirebirdGT:

Springs are progressive rate: Specs: 1" Lowered Front 285-525 lb/in, 1" Lowered Rear 100-140 lb/in. So it's a bit tighter than your setup on the heavy end. So it may do better with big bars when cruising but may get a bit stiff with big bars when pushing it?

@silversixx:

I do get the point of LCA relocation brackets now. I dont need them at the moment though.

[whitdog54]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

you say you feel every little bump now, but is the ride still better. My stock spring shock set up i feel every damn pebble in the road. Its so uncomfortable. I was gonna go hotchkis kyb agx, in hopes of a better handling and better daily driving ride.

Were those moogs for the rear lower control arms? do you need a press for those?

[ssms5411]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

Never had mine swing out only in rain which is expected, but it stuck to the road very well , I have 275/40/17 BFG G-force tires, and all my otherr suspension upgrades, If it did spin put like after getting my car washed, it would slip side to side and continue straight with the Torsen LSD and 3.73's, I noticed it did this every time so I think the suspension was setup pretty damm well. I just kept the wheel straight and the torsen or the sway bars or both made the car just continue straight. I need a STB now to make up for the loss of my ST35mm sway I think , just to make it stiffer. You'll have a car with great handling at the way your going, are you going to autocross it? Only sugestion if you do the FE2 R&P 14:4 compared to stock 16:9 will have a greater steering response with less movement of the steering wheel.

[TheGr8Schlotzky]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

Steve, why did you swap to a 32mm front bar? Not enough room up front with the new R&P or what? A 32/21 setup would be pretty prone to oversteer I would think, though I do believe it was offered in 1LE for a year or two.

[OneEightSeven]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

I'm considering Z28 19mm take offs for the rear sways. I currently have the F41 RPO code. What RPO code do I want for a rear z28 bar? How do I tell specifics on this when junk yard shopping? My car is a Y87 model stock.

@whitdog54:

The stock suspension definitely passes a lot of road feel compared to a lot of other cars, but the car bounces a lot. When it was stock making sharp maneuvers at high speed felt a lot more dangerous since the car felt unstable. There was also a lot more snap back when cornering stock. By snap back I mean when you make a sharp turn then stop feeding in steering lock and the car decides to swing back the way it came from because of the body roll. If you don't handle a situation like this correctly you may end up spinning the car because it's too unstable.

With this new gear I feel more little imperfections in the road, but it's a lot more manageable since it doesn't set the car off into bounces. Now the car stays level and corners great. You just get more input about what each tire is doing at any given time. Ie. you know when your rear right tire is on rough ground or about to slip a bit, etc... There is a lot less body roll too and the car dips or rears a lot less when braking and accelerating.

I would go for the Hotchkis for sure since they are progressive rate which means if you just cruise at the speed limit on decent quality roads it wont feel much more bumpy than stock. However the Camaro will never ride like a s-class mercedes, 7 series BMW or a town car. It's not sound insulated enough and with low pros and firm suspension it will always give a lot of road response. So if you want comfort in the form of a marshmallow ride look at a new car ;P. I'm a lot more comfortable with high road feel than bouncing around stock.

The KYB AGX were not recommended to me by Sam and his reasoning makes sense. He said its a decent shock, but it's adjustment is one-way and too coarse. A coarse adjustment means it will always dampen too much or too little. For an adjustable shock he recommends the KNOIs. They are a lot more expensive. For the same kind of money as the AGX you can get those SLP Bilsteins form him.

@ssms5411:

I may take it autocrossing at some point. I know what you mean about car wash sliding :). I'm comfortable with over steer, I just wouldn't want it to happen a lot without expecting it. I have a Torsen LSD too (3.42's though) and it will definitely straighten out eventually, just keep the gas on or thread it a bit. Maybe add some opposite lock. Which steering rack did the Y87 come with, do you know?

[ssms5411]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

Steve, why did you swap to a 32mm front bar? Not enough room up front with the new R&P or what? A 32/21 setup would be pretty prone to oversteer I would think, though I do believe it was offered in 1LE for a year or two.

24LB weight reduction up front mostly was the reason, the FE2 rack is the same size as the stock just different internal ratio. The 32mm was smaller for the under K turbo going on also and the 21mm is good for striaght line performance, now that I have my QA-1 adj. shocks all around with 300LB springs on the front and 1LE progressive rear springs so its not as bad as it was. It now handles alot better, just needed to set up the shock rates. I have alot of weight off the front end now with more to go so its handling pretty well now. I'll be taking off out the heater core,air bags and rear impact bar,etc. so about another 75LBS -100lbs.

[ssms5411]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

I'm considering Z28 19mm take offs for the rear sways. I currently have the F41 RPO code. What RPO code do I want for a rear z28 bar? How do I tell specifics on this when junk yard shopping? My car is a Y87 model stock.

@whitdog54:

The stock suspension definitely passes a lot of road feel compared to a lot of other cars, but the car bounces a lot. When it was stock making sharp maneuvers at high speed felt a lot more dangerous since the car felt unstable. There was also a lot more snap back when cornering stock. By snap back I mean when you make a sharp turn then stop feeding in steering lock and the car decides to swing back the way it came from because of the body roll. If you don't handle a situation like this correctly you may end up spinning the car because it's too unstable.

With this new gear I feel more little imperfections in the road, but it's a lot more manageable since it doesn't set the car off into bounces. Now the car stays level and corners great. You just get more input about what each tire is doing at any given time. Ie. you know when your rear right tire is on rough ground or about to slip a bit, etc... There is a lot less body roll too and the car dips or rears a lot less when braking and accelerating.

I would go for the Hotchkis for sure since they are progressive rate which means if you just cruise at the speed limit on decent quality roads it wont feel much more bumpy than stock. However the Camaro will never ride like a s-class mercedes, 7 series BMW or a town car. It's not sound insulated enough and with low pros and firm suspension it will always give a lot of road response. So if you want comfort in the form of a marshmallow ride look at a new car ;P. I'm a lot more comfortable with high road feel than bouncing around stock.

The KYB AGX were not recommended to me by Sam and his reasoning makes sense. He said its a decent shock, but it's adjustment is one-way and too coarse. A coarse adjustment means it will always dampen too much or too little. For an adjustable shock he recommends the KNOIs. They are a lot more expensive. For the same kind of money as the AGX you can get those SLP Bilsteins form him.

@ssms5411:

I may take it autocrossing at some point. I know what you mean about car wash sliding :). I'm comfortable with over steer, I just wouldn't want it to happen a lot without expecting it. I have a Torsen LSD too (3.42's though) and it will definitely straighten out eventually, just keep the gas on or thread it a bit. Maybe add some opposite lock. Which steering rack did the Y87 come with, do you know?

Your lucky you got a Y87 it has the FE2 14:4 quicker steering ratio. So your good to go. When Strano ran out of Blistiens and they were back ordered he was recommending the KYB's ADJ. for cars that were lowered. I guess he changes his mind to what he wants to sell like any company. I had KYB's and Blisteins before and I really like the QA-1's but the KYB's were great also for the money. I also have my stereo in the rear, Optima Batt. and 1.5 gal. methanol kit back there,about 150lbs. so the weight is getting pretty evened out.

[whitdog54]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

Thanks for the info.

Yea hes always witching what he recommends. I just want the best ride quality, i can give up some performance for a little smoother ride.

Ive driven a trans am and I feel the steering was just as quick as my car. And my cars non y87. I dont think the quicker steering ratio makes much difference.

[ssms5411]

Re: Shocks and springs installed :-D

Thanks for the info.

Yea hes always witching what he recommends. I just want the best ride quality, i can give up some performance for a little smoother ride.

Ive driven a trans am and I feel the steering was just as quick as my car. And my cars non y87. I dont think the quicker steering ratio makes much difference.

Its only 2 3/4 turn to a 2 1/4 turn but I found at higher speeds I noticed it alot more and when I did a U-turn a couple of days ago it was alot quicker, since traffic was coming. LOL My stock one had 167,000 miles on it and had play side to side from the alm. pin inside wearing down inside the R&P and the rebuilds come with brass so they will last longer , so I couldn't pass it up to get a FE2 R&P and also got rid of the rag joint coupler since it was starting to go also the LS1 style will last along time. Good luck on your setup.