max G's pulled on skidpad?

[Arctc Wolf]

what do u guys think could be the max G's pulled on a skidpad, and how do u think u'd have to do it?

Here's how I'm thinkin bout doin it:

1LE swaybars
Ground Control or Global West coil-over kit w/ Koni adjustable shocks, lowered 2"
chrome moly upper/lower a-arms
chrome moly k-member
BMR or SLP sfc's
chrome-moly rod-ended lca's
chrome moly adjustable phr
global west trac-link
max weight loss w/o compromising safety or streetability

forged rims, custom backspacing
17x11 front w/ 315-35-ZR17 tires
18x12 rear w/ 335-30-ZR18 tires

I think this could pull over 1 G on the skidpad, both clockwise and counterclockwise rotation.

[Dominic]

You want max G's?

Tires... Tires... Tires...

IMO Skidpad #'s mean nothing. I can get the same skidpad numbers on a car with race shocks as a car with NO SHOCKS.

Skidpad is steady state, and so long that camber is controlled properly to keep the contact patch right, skidpad is merely a factor of what tire you run.

Its a hogwash value for most cars.

[Arctc Wolf]

how about best cornering ability then, i figured it meant the same.

[speedy-v6-camaro]

I saw an article that had a stock Z28 with .90G. So it can only go up from there....hopefully.

[Dominic]

1LE swaybars - you should pick sways last

Ground Control or Global West coil-over kit w/ Koni adjustable shocks, lowered 2"
Overkill most likely, are you going SA or DA on the Konis? You only need bilsteins in the rear.

chrome moly upper/lower a-arms
Weight reduction? What are you needing these for?

chrome moly k-member
Again... weight reduction?

BMR or SLP sfc's
Are you going to be in an autoX Class? If not fine, they help. Go with BMR for weight concerns.

chrome-moly rod-ended lca's
You should get the double rod ended LCAs I run (slot car, or the ones in for sale by badz28) or the unbalanced engineering ones... all are great.

chrome moly adjustable phr
Why chrome moly? Weight? is 2lbs worth it? naa... Just go with aluminum double rod ended unit... it weighs less anyways. [img]smile.gif[/img]

global west trac-link

max weight loss w/o compromising safety or streetability

Why? Handling? It really depends


forged rims, custom backspacing
17x11 front w/ 315-35-ZR17 tires
18x12 rear w/ 335-30-ZR18 tires
I *seriously* doubt you need 335s.. Most people get TONS of grip with 315's all around... The extra bias in the rear of 335s is something you'll need to work on the spring and shockrate and swaybar size with too, as it will make the front tend to understeer more. I'd much rather run 275's or 315s all around, or just a race compound 255 wide tire... It depends on a lot of factors, for what you need.

Yeah, that list might be cool to look at on a mods page... but you need to remember that changing everything doesn't make for a better car.

[V6Bob]

I don't mean to dump on you or talk down to you, but you need to realize that this business takes a lot of knowledge or a pro to help. You can't just throw a bunch of sexy sounding parts at a car and expect a good result. Here are just a few of the things you need to consider.

What spring rates are you going to use? No one can comment on your shock or swaybar choice without knowing that.

If you lower the car 2 inches you screw up the front roll center and the rear geometry. What are you going to do about that?

Chrome moly is stronger, _when heat treated properly_, and so parts can be made lighter. But welding it screws up the heat treat. Are the guys you're planning on buying Cr/Mo fabrications from doing it right and heat treating after welding? Otherwise you're paying for nothing more than poser value and, if the guys are also trying to advertise light weight by using thin tubing, maybe getting weaker parts than stock.

Setting up a car is always a compromise and what works best for flat out competition in dry weather wouldn't be something I'd want on my only street car, which has to do a lot more.

For example, Dominic is right that tires do more than anything else. Hoosier A3SO3s will pull aboout 1g on a dead stock suspension. But, even though they're "DOT approved" they're for dry weather competition only. They have very little tread and corner much worse than cheapo tires in wet weather. They can even hydroplane and lose traction in a straight line. They'd last about 1000 miles in street use. Autocrossers who use them have an extra set of wheels and put them on at the autocross (if it's dry).

Again, I'm not trying to dump on you. But the kind of extensive and extreme mods to your car you're talking about require knowledge - that's just a fact.

[ July 19, 2003: Message edited by: V6Bob ]</p>

[Arctc Wolf]

I've already done 1LE swaybars, and I find that they do tend to lean towards oversteer, so to balance it out more, I was thinking of the 315/335 tire combo, to get the car more neutral.

I'm looking at all this chrome-moly stuff because of weight. BMR is a widely known company, and I haven't heard any complaints about their parts breaking. Dominic, lemme get the website for ur rod-ended lca's, and for that aluminum phr.

koni single adjustables, because this is basically a street raced car, or maybe a little road racing out at Willow Springs.

I was planning on the BMR SFC's, but the slp's looked like they supported more. Oh, and I forgot, a Chrome-moly 6-pt. roll cage for safety w/ subframe tie-downs to turn it into an 8-pt. cage.

the geometry can be fixed with lca relocation brackets, the adj. phr, and the GW trac-link, along w/ a new front alignment.

tires will be Z or Y compound street tires that can be used in wet. The idea is to make this an extreme street car that can run great on a road course or pull high g's on a skid pad.

lower center of gravity to help the chassis stick better. the coil-over part will allow for more lowering when able, and less when in town w/ too many dips in the road.

[zlexiss]

I agree with the other posters - suspension is a _system_, and parts need to be selected with consideration for each other.

If you want to do your suspension right, here's three words to live by:

Call.
Sam.
Strano.

www.stranoparts.com

[magic1872]

ahhh, you wanna pull real G's let me take you up in an airplane Im out see ya [img]graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

[Arctc Wolf]

I'm sure sam knows his stuff, but sam is not god of f-body suspension. I respect his opinion on all subjects and believe he is a wealth of knowledge, but the thing is, my car is not strano's car, and your cars are not strano's cars. U pay him to help you get the most out of your suspensions, and that's what I may do as well, but only on the parts that I feel that i cannot get the most out of myself, such as matching spring rates to swaybars and such. this I would leave to him. perhaps, when I become more adept at suspension tech, i may be able to figure it out myself.

I prefer knowing how things work and why they do what they do. this is why I prefer picking out the parts i choose for my car.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

"but sam is not god of f-body suspension"
LOLOLOLOL..
He may not be a god.. but.. beaing last years pro solo Champion (i belive in ESP class) dosent hurt.. let alone in an FBODY!!

he knows a TON!!

If you dont know squat, call him.. he will get you on the right track.. There is alot more you can learn from talking to him for an hour then you ever could from this message board.. Not knocking the board.. but there is a ton OF BS slung around here..

mainly because people have prefrences and missconceptions.. and what works for them may not work as well for you.. However.. basicly you jsut gota spend money trying.. tuning then retrying.. you also need to spen alot of time in the seat! that is critical.. seat time autocrossing is priceless!! because then you will learn what you acctualy want/need..

That is why if you are jsut starting off.. talk to sam.. he will atleast get you on the right track.. and you will learn a TON!

Good luck!

~Bill

[John_D.]

I was reluctant to call Sam initially too. I'm glad I did. Well, first I emailed him with some questions, and he pretty much said it was too much to cover in an email, to call him and he'd talk me through it.

The first time we spent 1/2 hour on the phone. I left a message for him, and he called me... We talked about all kinds of things, sway bars, shocks, springs, lca's, tire pressures. No sales pressure. He loves talking. [img]smile.gif[/img] I was really surprised at the amount of free advice.

We did talk about how much I wanted to spend (since there were different levels - mostly in the shocks - of how much I wanted to tie up in the car - and what the gains might be.)

A few days later, we talked for another 1/2 hour, after I had some time to think over what we talked about the first time.

He knows a lot. You can always pick and choose what information you want to keep from the conversation. Another learning resource... [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ July 21, 2003: Message edited by: John_D. ]</p>

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

my experience was just like johns..

again.. great guy.. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Dominic]

Sam does know his stuff but I firmly agree with V6Bob.

WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU DOING WITH THIS CAR?

Sure, go blow lots of money on parts you don't need, I dont care... Most people don't need all that you're buying, just because its out there doesn't mean it needs to be on your car.

Now, if you *do* need this stuff sure I'll help you. I just want to make sure you're not buying things you don't need. If you're really racing, you have rules to stick to, and things like SFCs are going to bump you into higher classes... There is so much to avoid.

If its just a street car, and you don't open track or anything other than take it to the drag strip every so often, and just want it to outhandle most everything on the road, SAY SO! There's nothing wrong with it [img]smile.gif[/img]

Let's start with something simple before you get all wound up with mods.

Send me an IM... XXI Dominic, I'll be glad to help you.

[Arctc Wolf]

I just set this post up to get some discussion and debates goin. I pretty much know what I'd love 2 have on my car, and what I'll realistically end up with instead.