Sway Bars? Shocks?

[SuprSpdDB7]

Ok. let's make this simple...
i want to get sway bars (or are they anti-sway bars) i don't know what the difference is... but what kinda should i get for best performance.... i wanna reduce/eliminate body roll.. which is really obvious in the rear. Thanks

do you think i would need shocks also to eliminate roll? what kind?

prices on both please?

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: SuprSpdDB7 ]</p>

[Cale]

Here's my situation - take from it what you will -

I just have 1LE sway bars - it made a considerable difference from stock. But now that I've gone AutoXing a few times and have tried to work on my driving skills - I still notice a fairly decent amount of body roll. At this point I am swapping the front 32mm bar for a Suspension Techniques 35mm bar (should be here today) to see what affect that has on it. From there I'll sooner or later be adding Bilstein HDs. That all should be enough to make it handle nicely.

People say "tune the suspension, build it the right way, blah blah" Yea, that's great and all, but not practical.

Start with 1LE sway bars, see how you like it. If you need more, go with Bilstein HDs. If you need more.... work on your driving and then still see if you need more.

Hope that gives you a start.

[Brendan Hearn]

Speaking of blisten hd shocks, is the ride with them harsher than stock shocks?

[BIG Daddy]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Brendan Hearn:
Speaking of blisten hd shocks, is the ride with them harsher than stock shocks?<hr></blockquote>

Sorry but the stock Decarbons are harsher than the Bilsteins. The Germans know how to make shocks smooth riding and stiff enough to handle. Just be sure to get matching springs. ;) :cool:

[Cale]

Our stock springs are matching.

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

Try getting 1LE springs first with Bilstein HDs. If you never changed your shocks then now it's a good time. See how you like it then. If you still want more, then get 1LE bars. My car is very flat with 1LE springs/shocks/sway bars. You don't need more on the street. If you're a hardcore autox guy then you might want to get the 35mm front bar. You will need sticky tires to take advantage of it.

[Brendan Hearn]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> Try getting 1LE springs first with Bilstein HDs. If you never changed your shocks then now it's a good time. See how you like it then. If you still want more, then get 1LE bars. <hr></blockquote>

I figured I'd stay with my stock springs cause even though the 1LE ones are slightly higher id rather stay with mine, the shocks are gonna be the only suspension mod. I was going to get the sway bars but my cars a$$ already swings enough with the 285's in the rear. kinda odd.

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

Springs will help more then sway bars. They can stop brake dive and keep your car level on more then just turns.

If you just want to get Bilstein HDs then that's great. Shock are supposed to be the first mod. But then I would do springs and later sway bars.

[95silver]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dom:
If you're a hardcore autox guy then you might want to get the 35mm front bar. You will need sticky tires to take advantage of it.<hr></blockquote>
I have Bridgestone RE-730's. Are they sticky enough?

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

What I meant to say is this. People buy 35mm front bars and think they help right off the bat. The tires must be sticky enough to hold the car in the turn for the sway bar to have any effect. Imagine turning on ice. Does it matter whether what sway bar you have? No. Same goes for the STB. What do you think is going to happen first; chassis will flex or the tires will let go. Hence you need really good tires to take advantage of it. Sure you can drive with the 35mm in the front, but when you take the car past it's limit, will the tires let go before the bar can do it's work? From what I heard from people who run these bars is that you'll need something made for autox. If you have all season tires, don't bother. Sticky tires usually have thread wear ratings of under 300.

Everyone is always trying to better the other. :rolleyes:


32/21 1LE with 1LE springs works wonders. It's like night and day. If I knew I could make the car handle like this I would have done this day one of ownership. Get what works. You don't need the 35mm bar unless you go to autox events. For the street it's not needed. How fast and sharp are you going to be turning on the street? Right now I feel no need to upgrade my suspension.

[V6Bob]

"The tires must be sticky enough to hold the car in the turn for the sway bar to have any effect."

I'm gonna disagree with Dom on this one. That statement is way overboard. A bigger front bar will decrease body roll and increase steering response, even with less than sticky tires. It _will_ have a major effect.

Same with chassis stiffeners, especially sfcs. You will notice an improvement, no matter what tires you have.

Do all these things work _better_ with sticky tires? Sure. But there's no reason not to get them without.

I will agree that swaybars should be the last mod you do, and they should be chosen to work with any other mods, particularly springs.
[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: V6Bob ]

[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: V6Bob ]</p>

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by V6Bob:
"The tires must be sticky enough to hold the car in the turn for the sway bar to have any effect."

I'm gonna disagree with Dom on this one. That statement is way overboard. A bigger front bar will decrease body roll and increase steering response, even with less than sticky tires. It _will_ have a major effect.

Same with chassis stiffeners, especially sfcs. You will notice an improvement, no matter what tires you have.

Do all these things work _better_ with sticky tires? Sure. But there's no reason not to get them without.

I will agree that swaybars should be the last mod you do, and they should be chosen to work with any other mods, particularly springs.
[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: V6Bob ]


[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: V6Bob ]<hr></blockquote>


"Where the car works great on both Hoosier's and Kumho's, it's HORRIBLE on street tires. Not just lack of grip either. It doesn't want to turn going in, and then you can't get any power down coming out of corners while going sideways. Slap on RS-A's, and it's different again.

My point is simply that the 35mm is proven in National competition. Almost everyone who has tried it, has not gone away from it. And if you aren't on Kumho or Hoosier race tires, or otherwise have something in your setup that differs substantially from the norm, your results may not be the same. "Sam Strano


As you see Kumho or Hoosier race tires. Also "HORRIBLE on street tires".

What is with everyone recommending bigger is better? Someone would find something that works i.e. 32/21 and then everyone wants to do even better and go bigger. GM just didn't slap on this suspension without engineering it.

If I was a little harsh, I apologize.

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Dom ]</p>

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

Here is another one. From someone who actually owned the bar.

"I've used the ST 35mm on street tires, and w/ the stock 19mm rear. (also stock springs).

I didn't like it. The car would plow through turns if the road conditions weren't perfect. Felt 'out of balance' for daily driving. I'm stepping down to a 32mm solid front, and maybe a 21mm rear if needed."

This is JCZ28 from LS1.com.

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Dom ]</p>

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

I just keep finding quotes today.

"For those running street tires, I'd rather see you guys on real good shocks before even messing with a sway bar. A sway bar is a spring. It also wants to recoil too. But, you don't have a damper acting directly on it to stop it like you do with a coil-spring. That means your shocks have to take some extra work on with a bar." Sam

As I keep saying over and over...Do shocks first, then springs, then sway bars.

[Cale]

In regards to the whole do springs, shocks, and then bars -
yea I'm sure that's the ultimate in "correct" way, but I for one loved what the 1LE bars alone did for my stock car. And they didn't even cost half of what new shocks cost (Bilstein HDs are now priced a little nicer though).

And springs?
What springs? The 1LE spring? Sam Strano, the guy you quote so much, also reacts violently (over the telephone anyhow) to the idea of putting a V8 Spring on a V6 car. That's exactly what you've done.
So what other spring? Prokit? No thanks. A Coil Over? You buy it.

The ST 35mm bar is sitting in my living room. It's going on tomorrow. I'll see how it reacts (along with the 21mm rear 1LE bar) on my street tires.