1LE Sway Bars/BMR subframe connectors

[Dan M]

I decided that if I'm going to buy sway bars, I want 1LE and if I'm going to buy subframe connectors then I'll go with BMR (tubular or boxed is another issue I havn't decided on). Hrm... are there 1LE SFCs? Whats better here? And what parts will I need for the 1LE sway bars?
Well, lots of questions there... thanks!

[PiLOTLiTE]

I don't believe there are 1LE SFCs.

As far as the 1LE parts, you'll need the bars (p/n 26032907 and 10021221), endlinks (4)(p/n 10221779), and insulators (2 for front + 2 for rear)(p/n 10288551 and 10235886).

You can get the endlinks and insulators from other companies like Prothane as well. I have all those 1LE parts I mentioned above and they work great.

[Dan M]

Great, thanks, do ya know if those are better than the BMR sway bars?

[V6Bob]

The BMRs are the same size as the 1LEs. They are made of much better metal, but, since the 1LEs are not overstressed, it doesn't matter.

Both of these 32/21 sets of bars will oversteer a lot more than the stock setups, particularly the late model 28/15s. Be careful.

[Dan M]

Oversteer? Hrm... yeah, now what is that? ;)

[Dan M]

Oversteer, anyone?

[V6Bob]

Sorry, I saw the smiley and thought you were being funny.

When a car loses traction going around a corner, one end or the other usually loses traction first. If the front wheels slide first the car go straight (understeers). Most front wheel cars do this.

If the rear wheels lose traction first the back end slides around (oversteer). Like a rear wheel drive car on snow.

Our cars are designed to understeer (usually) because that's generally considered safer. Changing to the 1LE bars will make the car understeer less and may move it into oversteer. Whether it does so depends on the particular curve and also on springs, shocks, tires, tire pressure, alignment, which also affect understeer/oversteer, but to a smaller degree.

One of the main reasons racers use sway bars is to tune the understeer/oversteer balance of the car. In CART, the stiffness of the bars is adjustable by the driver and used to keep the handling balanced while the gas burns off and changes the weight distribution.

Just slapping a set of bars on a car without understanding how this works means you are wasting an opportunity to tune the handling and may end up with unsafe handling. Any one of a number of books (like How to Make Your Car Handle) explains it in detail.

The real bad thing I see is those who pull the front bar. Massive oversteer, guaranteed.

[Dan M]

Sounds like sway bars aren't the kind of mod a beginner should do... so I'll probably stay away from them. Thanks bob!

[Dominic]

you cant go wrong with 1LE's, theyre designed by GM for your car! If you don't have a mathematical geometric calculation to go by, then the only way to tune your suspension is by trial and error, so I'd say just grab some! They're inexpensive from SLPonline anyways [img]smile.gif[/img]

[V6Bob]

"you cant go wrong with 1LE's, theyre designed by GM for your car! If you don't have a mathematical geometric calculation to go by, then the only way to tune your suspension is by trial and error"

This is mostly right, but not completely. The 1LE bars are designed to be used with the 1LE springs (and the 1LE springs are designed to be used with 1LE shocks...). The 1LE springs are designed for a V8, so the front springs are heavier, creating more understeer.

I'm skeptical of using the '93 1LE 32/21 combination on our cars, but it's just my guess. I also note that GM only used this combo one year, then went to 32/19, suggesting they may have wanted less oversteer.

It is also true that people who are serious about mods tune the sway bar selection by trial and error. This requires something like going to autocrosses so you can check the understeer/oversteer balance. The serious folks try various combinations to understand the effects of a particular change.

I'm not trying to scare people. I am suggesting that you understand the effects of changing bars, instead of just slapping something on your car because you read something on the net (including my stuff). If you don't want to learn (there are plenty of good books) you can get a complete package (springs, bars, shocks) from someone like SLP.

[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: V6Bob ]</p>

[Jack]

What you might consider doing is going to an autocross meet and see if you can find someone running a car like ours. Back in my autocross days, it was fiercely competitive, but we did share info. with each other. The older veterans enjoyed helping the newbies out. I am not sure if this still happens much, times change, but it is worth a shot.

[FirebirdGT]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by V6Bob:
I'm skeptical of using the '93 1LE 32/21 combination on our cars, but it's just my guess. I also note that GM only used this combo one year, then went to 32/19, suggesting they may have wanted less oversteer.<hr></blockquote>

Yes they used it one year, but in 94 they installed "1LE" springs. In 93 they used the stock springs. See the Technical Database for the details.

[V6Bob]

Robert/FirebirdGT - What front springs are on a 98-01 V6? The suspension specifications table says 292, which is the same as a V8(?), the f-body springs table says 257. It makes a considerable difference in this discussion.

[FirebirdGT]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by V6Bob:
Robert/FirebirdGT - What front springs are on a 98-01 V6? The suspension specifications table says 292, which is the same as a V8(?), the f-body springs table says 257. It makes a considerable difference in this discussion.<hr></blockquote>


OMG!! It's fixed now. 98+ have 257.