Good formula for a stiff suspension????

[blue95]

I have been looking around at posts and talked to some people and I think I have narrowed to this. I might do some dragging but I am mainly looking for better feel. If someone could point out a flaw or if its a good setup please let me know! I am thinking that I will end up maybe with a little too much understeer?

SLP STB
V8 takeoffs shocks Decarbons
19mm rear sway bar(V8 takeoff)
32mm (probably 1LE maybe SLP's)but no poly bushings

1LE front spring but V8 takeoff rear springs ( is this a good idea because with the few bolt ons I have now I don't need the stiff one in the back. And that rear 1LE spring is pretty stiff.

SFC's (weld on) not sure on that yet I want a stiffer suspension but not to the point that I can't have a decently smooth ride.

Let me know...thanks :D

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: blue95 ]</p>

[Kidinthehall2001]

Ya know, when you look at the main page of the messageboard (the one that lists all the rooms and what the last topic was) this topic just says..."Good formula for a stiff" :D :D :D :D [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

[V6Bob]

The sfcs will stiffen your ride very slightly, less than the other changes you suggest. And, if you stiffen your suspension, you want a stiff chassis to work against.

IMHO, the sfcs should be your first mod.

The understeer will be less than you think. The bigger front bar will improve camber control.

[blue95]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kidinthehall2001:
Ya know, when you look at the main page of the messageboard (the one that lists all the rooms and what the last topic was) this topic just says..."Good formula for a stiff" :D :D :D :D [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

:D :D


yah I wanted a good base but is using 2 different springs a good idea?

[strobhen]

If you are never going to do any auto-x, sfc are fine, if you are, hold off on them until you get into it & are comfortable with the class they will put you in.

I think the v8 takeoffs aren't going to make a huge difference. Neither is the STB. But if your car is a 95, simply getting some fresh shocks in there could help.

The swaybars will probably make the biggest difference in your handling.

If you are going for an affordable suspension setup that isn't too rough, you've got the right idea. Stick to V8 takeoff shocks (which if your reading this and you have a brand new firebird/camaro, 2000+, I believe you have the same shocks as v8's) and 1LE components (1LE shocks are not cheap and you can do better in the aftermarket for the price).

I don't think that setup is going to create a lot of understeer. Our cars are pretty well balanced and if you hit understeer, its likely because you went into the corner too fast.

Finally, I say stick w/ 1le springs all around. As aftermarket springs go, neither the front or rear are all that stiff.

You could have a rock hard suspension and still have a smooth ride as long as your on a good road. A stiff suspension only amplifies road defects, it doesn't create them. So keep that in mind as well in your purchasing decisions.

Good Luck

[Guardsman]

Don't go with 1LE rear springs and the 1LE rear sway bar (21mm) together (Like I had on until today). It's awesome in terms of vertical and roll stiffness, but, it's too stiff, and the rear wheels will start tracking all over anything that they can grab, resulting in some occasionally scary axle steer. I now have the 1LE rear springs with the stock (15mm) rear sway bar, and I am also going to try the 17 and 19mm ones.
Also, double check the V8 take off rear springs, because they may be the same rate as ours.

[ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: Guardsman ]</p>

[blue95]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Guardsman:
Don't go with 1LE rear springs and the 1LE rear sway bar (21mm) together (Like I had on until today). It's awesome in terms of vertical and roll stiffness, but, it's too stiff, and the rear wheels will start tracking all over anything that they can grab, resulting in some occasionally scary axle steer. I now have the 1LE rear springs with the stock (15mm) rear sway bar, and I am also going to try the 17 and 19mm ones.
Also, double check the V8 take off rear springs, because they may be the same rate as ours.

[ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: Guardsman ]<hr></blockquote>

I am not using a 1LE spring and 1le rear swaybar I am just using a takeoff(my car is a 95 and is a small upgrade but I have high mileage so for $25 bucks it can't hurt) and the rear sway is a 19mm off of a Z28 that I got for a couple of bucks.

Thanks for your comments there strobhen thats exactly what I was going for just a little bit more road feel for not too much $$. I held back on the 1le rear spring because I was told that they were a little to stiff and I shouldn't go past anything over 150.

Dominic what do you think of this setup?

[Blue94V6]

The reason 1LE springs + 1LE swaybar = really stiff suspension is because the spring and swaybars are both controlling body roll (among other things), so it makes since that it makes a big difference. I've heard from people on various f-body sites that you should go for one or the other (meaning 1LE springs, or 1LE swaybars). Just thought I would throw that in.

[V6Bob]

"I've heard from people on various f-body sites that you should go for one or the other (meaning 1LE springs, or 1LE swaybars)."

They are wrong. Swaybars and springs need to be matched. 1LE bars and 1LE springs are meant to go together. 1LE springs and V6 swaybars are not the best combination, but they're not awful. 1LE bars and V6 springs are a bad combination, particularly the "1LE" bars that are 32/21. True 1LE bars are 32/19, GM only made a few cars in '93 with 32/21s and found out they were a bad idea. They're a worse idea with V6 springs.

[Dominic]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by V6Bob:
"I've heard from people on various f-body sites that you should go for one or the other (meaning 1LE springs, or 1LE swaybars)."

They are wrong. Swaybars and springs need to be matched. 1LE bars and 1LE springs are meant to go together. 1LE springs and V6 swaybars are not the best combination, but they're not awful. 1LE bars and V6 springs are a bad combination, particularly the "1LE" bars that are 32/21. True 1LE bars are 32/19, GM only made a few cars in '93 with 32/21s and found out they were a bad idea. They're a worse idea with V6 springs.<hr></blockquote>

I disagree, the 1LE bars actually work better on V6s since we're not as nose heavy. Sam Strano also agrees with me in that the 21 bar on a V6 works far better than on a V8.

[V6Bob]

"I disagree, the 1LE bars actually work better on V6s since we're not as nose heavy. Sam Strano also agrees with me in that the 21 bar on a V6 works far better than on a V8."

It works the other way. Since our weight distribution goes to the rear, we have less understeer than a V8 and can use a smaller rear bar, which is why GM specs the car that way. I could see that the lower power of the V6 would be a factor, but not the weight distribution.

I'd love to get Sam Strano into this discussion (personally, not secondhand; too much possibility of misunderstanding). I can't believe you've got the whole picture. If Sam says publically and specifically that 32/21 bars are a good idea with 257/114 springs (the weight distribution aspect is pretty minor compared to the spring rates) I'll shut up and never speak about this again. I note that he won the pro solo championship this year with 35/19, presumably with relatively stiffer front springs, too. If that's a decent setup, 32/21 and 257/114 would seem to have _way_ too much oversteer, and I think it does.

[Dominic]

Things will change when the shocks become non stock... At that time I might find the 21mm rear /is/ too stiff. At the moment its just right though, it feels great even at highway speeds. It might not be fast on the racecourse but it is very streetable.