Will The 1LE Sways Increase My Slalom and Skidpad #'s?

[F1GT]

I just ordered some new tires and the next thing I'm gonna get are some 1LE anti-roll bars. Will the extra 2mm/4mm do much, if anything, for the slalom speed and the g's on the skidpad??
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Correction: Extra 4mm/6mm

[ April 14, 2002: Message edited by: F1GT ]</p>

[Dominic]

Yes - it will definetly allow you to *push* your tires to their absolute limits, so if you don't get better G's its due to your tires.

IIRC, 2mm = 250% stiffer, 4mm = 500% stiffer.

[ April 10, 2002: Message edited by: TheCardinal ]</p>

[V6Bob]

I don't mean to be annoying, but...

2mm in the rear is about 150% stiffer. 4 would be about 230% stiffer. In the front these numbers would be a little less. Stiffness goes as the fourth power of the diameter.

Cardinal has the right idea, that a small change in bar diameter is a big deal. 4 in the rear (6 if you have a 98+ and get an early 1LE bar) is a whole lot. You are altering the balance of the car substantially toward oversteer.

That's the reason Sam Strano sells (and uses in autocross) a 35mm front bar.

[MustangEater8251]

yep they help alot. If you are planning oon autocrossing get a strut tower brace too. I finally got my STB today, ordered march 21st. You may want to upgrade your endlinks and you have to get different bushings to fit the different size bars. I got prothane poly bushings, and they are great, I fell alot more grip in slalom, (well practicing on the road) We will see the difference on sunday when I go autocrossing. Now I am saving for a set of autocrossing slicks, but don't hve the money jsut yet.

[F1GT]

So the stiffer the rear gets, compared to the front, the more over-steer? And if I just get the 32mm front only, it will cause more understeer?

What if I get the 1LE front sways and the Z28's 19mm rear sways so that it's +2 for both front and rear?? That way they both increase by the same amount, 150%. Now, will it be balanced like it was b4 with less roll??
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[V6Bob]

You have a 99 with 28/15 bars. That's a 28/15 ratio or 1.87. To keep the balance the same, keep the ratio the same. In commonly available sizes, 32(1LE or BMR)/17(early V6) = 1.88 or 35(Suspension Techniques)/19(V8 or later 1LE) = 1.84. IOW, because the front is bigger, you need a bigger change to keep the same balance.

Just getting the 32 front is an interesting option. Because the front camber changes less you don't get as much more understeer as you would think. And the improved steering response will be quite noticeable. Every 1LE except in 93 simply kept the stock V8 rear bar and just increased the front from 30 to 32. In most stock class autocross rules you can increase the front, but not the rear.

[F1GT]

I could've sworn it's 30/17 I have right now. Not sure on the rear now, but for sure the front is 30mm because of the Y87.
For '99 the Z28 is 30/19 and the SS is 32/19. It won't make sense if mine was 30/15, would it?

V6Bob, you are giving me second thoughts on getting the sways. I don't want to spin out and wreck my car. Is the oversteer from the 1LE's that bad? If so what do you recommend? keep it stock?? change it to 32/19 (32/19=1.68)??
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[V6Bob]

I've got Y87 and mine were 28/15. Measure yours with a caliper and let me know if I'm wrong.

I'm no expert and I can't tell you what's right for you. Personally, I think 32/21 is too much rear bar, especially for 98-up V6 springs, but I'm sure some here would disagree. Of the possible changes, the safest is to just increase the front. If you're not autocrossing, or if you want to autocross in stock class, you might like that just fine.

[F1GT]

Hey bob, you are right!! I just measured it today and it was 28/15. I think I'll just get the front sways then....thx for the info.
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[Dominic]

I would definetly go 32/21, the ratio is *perfect* on our cars. The amount of control I have over my car is amazing with them.

Pushed hard coasting = understeer
I can throttle this to neutral 4wheel drift..

And if I really push the throttle down I can go into an oversteer and do neat trix :D

Its very controllable, nothing insane at all.

[John_D.]

Some people have been talking about the front sway bar only. Be careful.

The front sway bar makes the front of the car handle better. This means less understeer (understeer- fronts sliding in a straight line when you are actually trying to turn). This can be a good thing. But now the car will have a greater tendency to oversteer (spin-out).

For most people in most situations, having the fronts let go first, is safer. When this happens you just let some of your speed scrub off, and then you're fine and can still steer. Oversteer is often terminal (you spin out, not recoverable, not steerable).

[F1GT]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by John_D.:
Some people have been talking about the front sway bar only. Be careful.

The front sway bar makes the front of the car handle better. This means less understeer (understeer- fronts sliding in a straight line when you are actually trying to turn). This can be a good thing. But now the car will have a greater tendency to oversteer (spin-out).

<hr></blockquote>

Eh? Oversteer with changing the front sways only? That's what I was trying to avoid by not changing both, but the front only. So whether I get the rears or not, the car will have more oversteer??
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[LMPerformance]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TheCardinal:
I would definetly go 32/21, the ratio is *perfect* on our cars. The amount of control I have over my car is amazing with them...<hr></blockquote>

Yep thats what GM thought too. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[MustangEater8251]

Best way to describe, is car turns better, but when you get past the threshhold, of losing grip, you lose it alot quicker then usual. You guys may saying understeer is ok, never went autoXing in a camaro with ****ty tires on. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[V6Bob]

"Some people have been talking about the front sway bar only. Be careful.
The front sway bar makes the front of the car handle better. This means less understeer"

This is wrong (on our cars). The end of the car that has less roll resistance sticks better. This is basic suspension theory. See "How to Make Your Car Handle", "Tune to Win", "Chassis Engineering", etc. etc. There's a counter effect due to camber change, but it's small on our cars.

"For most people in most situations, having the fronts let go first, is safer. When this happens you just let some of your speed scrub off, and then you're fine and can still steer. Oversteer is often terminal (you spin out, not recoverable, not steerable)."

Yes. That is why I'm not a fan of big rear bars, which always increase oversteer on our cars.

"I would definetly go 32/21, the ratio is *perfect* on our cars. The amount of control I have over my car is amazing with them...

Yep thats what GM thought too."

Sway bar selection is specific to a car (V6 or V8, other suspension mods), there is no "best set of bars".

Don't believe any of this because I say so (I'm no expert), go read a book and decide for yourself.