19mm vs 1LE 22mm swaybar...

[Brett Garret]

I just bought a 1LE front swaybar and bought energy suspension bushings and endlinks to put on. I was wondering which size to make the rear. I understand the larger you go the more oversteer will be present. I hear these 2 are the best to go with but didn't know what factors exactly benefit both. Just needed some good input. Thanks.

[shenanigans]

I have heard autocrossing 32/19 is a good combo or 35/21

[silvachris1]

I have 32/21 right now. There is a little more oversteer, but I've been adjusting to it. The oversteer wasn't as drastic as I originally though. I've been driving smoother and faster into corners than before, but if you stand on the throttle, it does want to let go. I have drove in the snow and ice, and in the rain and it's not as bad as people make it out to be, but will still lose traction easier than stock. I haven't went back to the stock rear bar yet because I'm still adjusting and I think I'm gonna like the setup. I will prolly autocross with it this spring/summer, and then try the stock rear bar again to compare. I like it so far, even though a few weeks ago the oversteer bothered me. Just stick with the stock rear bar for now and see if you like the setup. It beats having a bar that you don't really need if you're comfortable with what you have.

[ December 19, 2004, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: silvachris1 ]

[FirebirdGT]

Originally posted by Brett Garret:
I just bought a 1LE front swaybar and bought energy suspension bushings and endlinks to put on. I was wondering which size to make the rear. I understand the larger you go the more oversteer will be present. I hear these 2 are the best to go with but didn't know what factors exactly benefit both. Just needed some good input. Thanks.

What size tires? It will make a difference.

[Brett Garret]

It will be on 16in Kuhmo Ecstas ASXs (the widest size).

[whiteshark]

Here's some good reading on rear bars from strano

"Rear sway bars. I tend to stay pretty small on the rear bars. Sway bars actually try and pick up on the inside rear tire when cornering. This forces the outside rear tire to do most of the work, limiting the traction. Of course this is when turning. Drag racers like big rear bars because they don't have to deal with that and they keep the car more level. Other reasons I don't run a lot of rear bar. You don't have to be as concerned with roll control. We have a solid axle, it doesn't gain or lose camber as the body rolls like the front or a car with an Independent suspension. When 4th gens have a good alignment and good shocks, they do not understeer. Actually and especially when thrashed they become prone to oversteer. Making the rear stiffer in wheel rate makes this tendency worse."

I'm farily sure he runs a 19. I autocross mine and there's no way I'd go above 19 unless you've got some auto-x tires. Just my opinion

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

acctualy, I was talking with sam the other day.

his new "thing" is his swaybar (made by addco for him)
and the 21mm rear..

its a nice combo imho..

We installed that setup on a firends car and i love it.. so.. I am gunna follow suit..

[John_D.]

I've been running the hollow 35 front and the 1LE 21 rear, and like that setup a lot.

That's with Eibach front springs, stock rear springs, and Koni's all around.

[Brett Garret]

I'm thinking of going with a 19mm rear for my setup. Anyone object or think I should go bigger? Thanks.

[V6Bob]

Here's what I know:

Swaybars are a very powerful mod. It is relatively easy to screw up your cars handling. Most people on the web don't understand bars. The purpose of the front bar is mostly to control roll. The purpose of the rear bar is mostly to set the handling balance. The rear bar does little to control roll. If you take the advice of a stranger on the web (and that includes me) about what specific bars to use at face value you're foolish.

Here's what I think I know:

You've made a modest change to the front bar by going from 30 to 32. That won't change the handling balance much, because, at the front, the improved camber control partly (mostly?) cancels out the increased weight transfer.

Changing the rear bar from 17 to 19 is, relatively, a much more serious change in stiffness. That will affect the handling balance substantially because camber control is not an issue at the rear. The car will oversteer more. In an emergency situation, particularly in the wet, that could cause you to spin into something you're trying to avoid. "Just stick with the stock rear bar for now and see if you like the setup." That's from silvachris1, and I agree.

Here's what I'm pretty darn sure of:

With stock V6 springs and V6 weight distribution the 22 bar is downright dangerous. _Way_ too much oversteer.

Here's my opinion:

I'm puzzled by what silvachris1 said about his own choice of a 21 rear. He says the 21 "will still lose traction easier than stock". That's what I think too and, if it were my car, that would be unacceptable. On the street oversteer is unsafe. On the track, it's slow because it delays the point at which you can apply full throttle. That's particularly true in autocross, which generally has a lot of slow corners.

When Strano uses an 19 or a 21 rear bar it's on a very different car, a V8 (more forward weight distribution) with stiff front springs. No way is that the hot setup on a V6 on stock springs, even on the track, much less the street.

[ December 21, 2004, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: V6Bob ]

[FirebirdGT]

I'll agree with V6Bob, and add tires.

I had the 32/21mm 1LE set with V8 stock springs and 275/17 tires - I considered it neutral to mild OVERSTEER.

BUT, when I went to 245/16 tires (for winter) - SIGNIFICANT OVERSTEER. I have gone to a 35mm SOLID front bar which has helped a great deal.

[Brett Garret]

I plan on going to Bilstein HD/Hotchkis Spring combo. I have LCAs and a BMR panhard rod. I think these with a 19 should run with very minimal oversteer.

[PiLOTLiTE]

I run a Bilstein HD/Hotchkis combo, with BMR LCAs, PHR, and STB, and 1LE 32/21 bars. Tire is a 275/40-17.

I find the combo to be quite neutral. Corner entry yields mild understeer at the limits of the tires, followed by mild (and easily correctable) oversteer. We'll see what happens when I get my BMR boxed SFCs welded in.

[silvachris1]

The only reason I haven't switched back to the stock rear bar yet is because I'm looking to get some wider tires. I was hoping for the 17" Smoothie IIs with at least 275s on them, but if it falls through in the next couple weeks, I'll prolly switch bars back. When I said it looses traction easier, I meant if you lean on the throttle HARD into the corners. It's not too bad at regular speeds in snow or rain if you exercize some caution and adjust for the conditions. I've drove on ice in the past couple days, and it was fine... as long as I didn't do anything STUPID. That said, it's still not the best setup, and I realize this. V6Bob and FireBirdGT know what they are talking about. Just stick with your stock rear bar for now.

[DARK SDE '02]

I have 1LE 32/21 and I do have some oversteer, especially now that I've gotten rid of torque management through programming. It's probably not the safest setup but if you really think about it we don't modify our cars to be safe, we do it so that they are MORE FUN to drive, am I right? I've never even came close to causing an accident due to oversteer and only play with it from time to time pulling out of 90* turns and such. The rest of my suspension is all from SLP's Level 1 kit too so it's probably not quite as bad as putting 32/21 on an otherwise stock car.