just installed BMR stuff

[5_spd_pewter_v6]

i just finished putting on BMR sway bars, STB, LCA, and PHR. it made such a difference in the ride. the car stays almost completely flat through the cornors. i love it, everyone should do these mods to their car.

[Dominic]

I'm glad you like it all [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] Thanks for posting your review. If you have any tips post them too.

[FirebirdGT]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 5_spd_pewter_v6:
everyone should do these mods to their car.<hr></blockquote>

Sorry, I can't let this pass without stating an alternate view. (Not the first time either.)

Yes, to improve handling they should put on a STB, LCA and PHR with stiffer bushings. BUT, I wouldn't put BMR on my car if you gave them to me (and did the install for me too). This goes for many other brands too.

Hotchkis and GM 1LE parts are the only parts I would recommend, and will use, in such a critial and safety related place as my suspension. I consider welded tubular LCA unsafe. Particularly, from "weld shops" that don't know the first thing about engineering or quality control.

Many have these, and will disagree. That's fine, it's your car and your life.

[shortdog273]

I've had BMR LCAs on the ride well over a year with no problems. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[V6Bob]

:D quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 5_spd_pewter_v6:
everyone should do these mods to their car.
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Sorry, I can't let this pass without stating an alternate view. (Not the first time either.) :D

BMRs rear swaybar is too big for stock V6 springs, even with their solid 32 front. They were designed for V8 springs and might be OK there, although I still have my doubts.

People put on big swaybars and the car rolls less and feels so much more responsive that they think this is the hot setup. It usually ain't. And, almost all of the improved roll control comes from the _front_ bar.

Shocks, springs, and, especially, swaybars, need to be carefully chosen. As a compatible set. A too big rear bar and shocks that won't keep up with the springs are the most common mistakes.

OTOH, I'm less concerned than Robert about Panhards and LCAs. These are just lumps and, theory aside, in practice they don't seem to be breaking.

[hockeyman]

Hey V6Bob, I have a STB and welded SFC's. My swaybars and basically everything else on the suspension is stock (that I can think of).
What else would you recommend for stiffening up my ride?

Thanx

-Marc

[Arctc Wolf]

An aftermarket tunnel brace will stiffen up the ride some, as well as a k-member, and a roll cage.

[Dominic]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Arctc Wolf:
An aftermarket tunnel brace will stiffen up the ride some, as well as a k-member, and a roll cage.<hr></blockquote>

Im not much on the tunnel brace as it sees no flexload there.

I don't run BMR LCAs on my car, but thats fine if he wants to. If he has a problem I'm sure he'll report it [img]smile.gif[/img]

Most people here DON'T race their V6 professionally, and most end up liking the big bars on the street. It might not be the best thing in the world to do for their car, but its safer than putting on an eibach prokit without changing shocks IMO.

Once again, I'm glad you're happy with what all you got... don't let the old fogeys make you feel bad about your purchase. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ May 24, 2003: Message edited by: Dominic ]</p>

[V6Bob]

"Hey V6Bob, I have a STB and welded SFC's. My swaybars and basically everything else on the suspension is stock (that I can think of)."

Panhard helped me a lot. IMHO, they're all good, but Robert is right that most all of the difference is in the bushings and the 1LE is a good piece.

Shocks are good also, but more $$$. Also, tires, if yours are cheap and ready to change.

[5_spd_pewter_v6]

hey, v6bob, why do you think that the bmr sway bar is too big. i appreciate your input, but a little more explanation would be helpful. thanks

[V6Bob]

Fair (and good) question.

Almost all of the antiroll is provided by the front bar and springs. The rear bar serves mostly to set the balance of the car, by adjusting how much cornering load goes to the front and to the rear.

On a V8, the stiff front springs (and swaybar) mean the front gets most of the cornering load. The bigger rear bar takes some of the load and puts in on the rear. But on the V6, the soft front springs (and a slightly more rearward weight distribution) mean the front is taking less load to begin with, and the rear more. The big rear bar comes in, transfers load from the front to the rear, and can overload the rear. In certain circumstances (accelerating off a first gear corner or in wet weather are the biggies) the rear can come around. You want to try to avoid that, both for speed and for safety.

I honestly think your car would handle better with a smaller rear bar. I'd be amazed if you noted a significant difference in how much the car rolls.

It will feel a trifle less "lively" but that's how a fast car feels. If you could drive a NASCAR stocker set up for a short track with low banks (like New Hampshire or Phoenix), you'd be amazed at how "dead" it feels at ordinary speeds. The need for the rear to put down 750HP means the swaybars are set to put most of the cornering load on the front. With 200 HP you don't need to go that far, but I think you could go some from where you are now.

The bottom line is that bars and springs work together and bars designed for a V8 (which the BMRs are) are pretty much guaranteed not to be the hot setup with V6 springs.

More info on this can be had in a number of books. "Chassis Engineering" by Herb Adams has a good explanation of how the load transfer goes, complete with numbers.

Thanks again for the question. I always worry about just annoying people, when I'm trying to help. And just answering helps me improve my thinking :D .

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: V6Bob ]</p>

[Arctc Wolf]

what u say makes sense, but that doesn't mean that u have to run out and get a new set of bars. why not balance the car out with perhaps wider rear tires than the fronts? I thought about this with my 1LE swaybars and honestly, it feels very neutral to me, at least at the speeds I drive, because the tires give before the bars do. getting bigger rear tires with the BMR bars seems like it would work too. the most common combo's would be like ZO6 rims w/ 17x9.5 and 18x10.5 w/ 275-40 and 295-35 tires, or ZR1 widths, 17x9.5 and 17x11 with either a combo of 255-45/285-40 or 275-40/315-35 tires. this would bias the car mroe towards understeer, and compensate for the overly big rear bar.

[Predator Bird]

i've been thinking about doing sway bars as my next mod, but after reading this i'm not sure what to do. i've got the rksport (h&r) lowering springs and was thinking about doing either 1le or bmr sway bars. i don't autocross, i just want something to reduce bodyroll so i can go up the on ramp even faster. :D what would be some good sway bars to get to match my springs?

btw: some other things i've got done that already help out my suspension are 275/40-17's, bmr: stb, adj. phr, and relocation brackets. i've got take-off shocks on right now, but i plan on getting bilsteins eventually.

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Predator Bird ]

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Predator Bird ]</p>

[5_spd_pewter_v6]

thanks for the explanation v6bob. i have noticed that my car is much more lively around corners, especially in the wet. i fishtailed around a corner the other day when it was raining, and really wasn't expecting it. but now that i know it is much easier to make the back end step out, i'll be more careful. i kind of like being able to push out the back end when i want to, i really couldn't do it with the stock setup. v6bob has a really good warning though, it is WAY easier to lose it with the BMR rear bar.

[Arctc Wolf]

1LE seems like a more balanced set of swaybars. I love my cornering abilities with them now, and with the other mods u have, plus the wider tires, they will let u stick it really good.