sway bars

[Mister_Johnny99]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> too much total roll control from the springs and bars combined <hr></blockquote>
Can you really have too much roll control?
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> or the back end trying to come around, ever (that means you _really_ need a smaller rear bar) <hr></blockquote>
I've already got the 19 rear, I figure I should match it with a bigger front instead of a smaller rear.
I guess what I'm asking is, Is the 35/19 too much front bias, or should I get a 32.

[Guardsman]

1LE packages used the 32/19 combo (32/21 was '93 only), and 35/21.

You don't want the back of the car too stiff. I tired using the 1LE rear springs and 21mm bar, on flat surfaces, it felt great. Start going over bumpy roads at high speed, and the rear-end started dancing all over the place.

Incidentally, I tried out a set of rear shocks (third gen Bilsteins) that a guy had, wasn't sure if they were the ones I was looking for. Turns out they were the wrong ones (sports instead of HDs). However, one thing that I found out - the sports have really soft bump(also really soft rebound, that's why they won't work). With that soft bump, the rear end stayed planted all the time, no skipping or anything.

Anyhow, point is, if you want the car to handle well, you want the rear end soft (on the bump side at least). So, don't go with too big of a sway bar. From what I know now, I'd say that a 21mm ear bar is definately overkill, and maybe even the 19 if the shock bump valving and springs are too stiff.

[V6Bob]

"Can you really have too much roll control?"

Yep. From Carroll Smith, Tune to Win,

Too much antiroll bar overall

- Car will be very sudden in turning response and have little feel
- Will tend to slide or skate rather than taking a set
- May dart over one wheel or diagonal bumps

What I don't know is how much antiroll you'd have to crank into an fbody to get there. My wild guess is that, with the usual stuff, you'd have trouble getting there on dry pavement, but could get this behavior on wet pavement.

A lot of people don't realize that soft suspension basically holds the road better because the tires have more contact with the road.

The suspension problem with an fbody is mostly that the front tires camber wrong when the car rolls. So some knowledgeable people like the 35 front because it keeps the front tires more uprght. With soft V6 front springs I personally like it for better cornering. I just don't know whether it would be a good choice with the Eibach springs. That's why I suggested Eibach or Strano for advice.

[ October 22, 2003: Message edited by: V6Bob ]</p>

[Camaro99]

I don't know a whole lot about suspension, but is it ok to just replace the front sway bar with stock springs or the eibach pro-kit?

[Mister_Johnny99]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> The suspension problem with an fbody is mostly that the front tires camber wrong when the car rolls. <hr></blockquote>
What do you mean by that? Is there a solution to this problem?
Thanks for the input on the bars. I'll have to give it some more thought.

[PiLOTLiTE]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by V6Bob:

The Eibach springs make this even more tricky because they are progressive rate. Still, the technical database says the fronts are pretty stiff and I'd guess performance V8 bars should work. Those are generally 32/19 or 35/19.
<hr></blockquote>

I like my 32/21 combo :D

The eibach springs are actually linear rate in the front, only progressive in the back. I will attempt to find the post about this now.


EDIT: here it is... http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ulti...c&f=2&t=002262

[ October 24, 2003: Message edited by: PiLOTLiTE ]</p>

[V6Bob]

"but is it ok to just replace the front sway bar"

Yes, you can change front bars without changing rears. Autocross guys who want to run stock class do it. The reason is that changing front bars only affects the handling balance moderately, because, while the bar transfers more of the cornering load to the front, it also limits camber change. The rear bar is different. Increasing just the rear bar on an otherwise stock car is a bad idea because it will transfer cornering load back and overload the rear tires.

But, the most important thing I'm trying to say is this:


&gt;&gt;&gt;If you don't know a lot about suspension, swaybars are the wrong thing to mess with.&lt;&lt;&lt;


The reason I post is to try and help people avoid really bad choices. I got into this discussion because I saw 35/25s recommended to someone who possibly had stock V6 springs (turns out he didn't). And because someone else who may have had stock V6 springs (but didn't) expressed interest in those bars. 35/25s on stock V6 springs is a good example of a really bad choice. And it's sneaky, it might not be clear how bad they are until the driver really needs to turn hard in an emergency. Like:

"I tried using the 1LE rear springs and 21mm bar, on flat surfaces, it felt great. Start going over bumpy roads at high speed, and the rear-end started dancing all over the place."

Slapping some bars on the car because some clown on the Net (I include myself in that group) says they're good is a lousy idea. There are some really bad bars (for some springs) being sold and being recommended on the Net.

Progressive springs make it even harder to tune a car properly, which is why most racers don't like them.

"Thanks for the input on the bars. I'll have to give it some more thought."

Thanks. Swaybars require a lot of thought, and also knowledge.

[ October 24, 2003: Message edited by: V6Bob ]</p>