how to stop the rear from sliding?

[FireFighter]

Ever since I put the 1LE 21mm rear sway bar on the car it scares me in the rain. It slides around every turn even when i just tap the gas. what will help me out? as far as suspension stuff I have drop srings, 1LE rear sway bar panhard Bar and LCA's also I have a BMR STB. Thanks guys.

[V6Bob]

There's only one thing to do. You really need a _much_ smaller rear bar. The one you've got is overloading the rear tires.

BTW, the 21mm is not "1LE". It's a failed experiment that GM put on a few of the first 1LEs back in 93, before switching to a 19 for later production 1LE cars.

Search "sway bars" on this forum for more info. But you really need a much smaller rear bar, _now_.

[ November 10, 2003: Message edited by: V6Bob ]</p>

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

....

whats your front bar?? stock??

how about getting some real springs!! torching springs is for tards..

[DARK SDE '02]

Ya get some real springs/shocks and then get some tires with decent wet traction. And slow down, barely touching the gas my a$$, I have the same bar and live in a place that floods near daily, leaving water sitting on the road a long time, and I haven't spun ever. Don't drive fast in the rain, simple RWD rules man.

[Wicked 3800 V6]

Remove the 21mm before you wreck. Put in a 32 up front on your stock bar out back, see how you like dem apples. THen go to a 35 up front. Only then go to a 19 or 21 out back.

[V6Bob]

"Remove the 21mm before you wreck."

Good advice.

"THen go to a 35 up front. Only then go to a 19 or 21 out back."

The 35mm front wouldn't change the need for a smaller rear bar much. Because it provides improved camber control it only affects the balance by a small amount. The 21 bar will still overload the rear tires on that car.

Swaybars are a complicated deal.

[ November 10, 2003: Message edited by: V6Bob ]</p>

[ReodDai]

V6 bob we need to take a complilation of all your swaybar posts and do a write up and put it in the modification encyclopedia. That thing is out of date anyway lol.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ReodDai:
V6 bob we need to take a complilation of all your swaybar posts and do a write up and put it in the modification encyclopedia. That thing is out of date anyway lol.<hr></blockquote>

[img]graemlins/thumbsdown.gif[/img]

I dont agree with bob and probably never will.. he is "right" about the oversteer issues with a larger rear bar.. however.. there is alot more too it then just the bar.. like the fact that firefighter has torched springs.. so god only knows how tahts affecting the whole thing..

and IMO.. oversteer is the shiznit.. its all in how you work it..

this is why i dont give swaybar "opinions" anymore..

[ November 12, 2003: Message edited by: AllTheGoodNamesAreGone ]</p>

[HAZ-Matt]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by AllTheGoodNamesAreGone:
and IMO.. oversteer is the shiznit.. its all in how you work it..<hr></blockquote>
Maybe if you want to be in one of those Japanese videos with people yelling "Drift!", or if you want to go slow around a track...

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

[img]graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]
Exactly.. you a$$

I dunno.. I hate how people on here thing that oversteer is "bad".. it can be bad.. but.. it can be good also.. depending on how you drive your car..

Anyone ever hear of throttle modulation to induce oversteer?? dosent suck then does it??

Its all in how you drive the car to be honest..

and no.. your car will not slide, roll of the road, and kill you if you have a large rear sway bar.. unless you are a idiot.. but in that case you deserve it..

and overstear kicks understears butt .. allways..

And while i have never personaly done any "drifting" (not all that interested either).. there is alot more to it then just overstear from what i can tell.. so step off..

[ November 12, 2003: Message edited by: AllTheGoodNamesAreGone ]</p>

[Wicked 3800 V6]

Chill Billy. I believe that adding a 21mm bar alone makes the rear fundamentally unstable. At least, it makes it unstable for taking turns, but if you ask a drag racer how his car handles now that he has the extreme rear bar and no front bar, he'll say it's OK.

Please, just don't add a 21mm bar and think that it'll make you a million times faster. Because, then you might wreck.

[ReodDai]

Don't bring difting into this conversation I highly doubt anyone on this board ,and if so maybe only 3 people, could drift their cars. If you don't know what something is (ie: drifting) don't bring it into a conversation.

[ November 12, 2003: Message edited by: ReodDai ]</p>

[slomaro]

v6 bob is correct with what he says about sway bars


putting a large rear swaybar may be fun an all but in an emergency your rear will come around on you and you will spin

I spun 180 degrees when i swerved to miss a shredded tire on the road and my rear came around on me. Yes my ****y GAy Goodyears caused it but it showes what will happen if you tighten the reaar up with a bigger sway bar.

heres a combo some people need to try I think and v6bob tell me if im right, 1 le 32mm front bar with a 17mm rear bar(this is the stock rear bar on stock v8's not ws6 or ss's) with poly or whatever endlinks

its higher but not near as much as a 15-19 jump only half that, I think it would handle alllllot better then a 32-19 combo any day


firefighter what kind of springs do you have? alot of people are assuming they are cut but you never said anywhere they were, also get some real tires in the back and not drag radials. BF goodrich g force KDW's are g GREAT in the wet and dry they even hook at the track its what i ran a 14.48 with
also did you put a bigger sway bar on the front or just the rear cause all you mention is the rear bar if soo put your stock one on now that is the hardest suspenion part to do correctly going with a larger front will help with the roll and wont effect how your rear slides out durring an emegency

[ November 12, 2003: Message edited by: slomaro ]</p>

[V6Bob]

"I dont agree with bob and probably never will.. he is "right" about the oversteer issues with a larger rear bar.. however.. there is a lot more too it then just the bar..

We agree about that. :D But I'm guessing a smaller rear bar will fix the problem. At least it will help.

"I hate how people on here think that oversteer is "bad"..
"oversteer kicks understeers butt .. always.."

But that I very much disagree with. Oversteer is neither fast nor safe.

_All_ fast cars are tuned for understeer, street or race. The reason is simple. If the rear tires are maxed out with cornering force, they cannot generate forward bite to accelerate the car.

From Carroll Smith, "Drive to Win":

"Corner exit oversteer thrills the spectators and makes the inexperienced driver feel heroically fast. In some ways it's a pity that it isn't the fast way around a race track."

Road and Track tested a Lotus Elise, the best handling sports car in the world. "A bit of understeer is noticeable in the tight stuff, and the rear absolutely refuses to come out..."

And even the most expert driver has a better chance of keeping control of their car in an emergency maneuver with understeer.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

I was writing a bunch of stuff about all of this.. but i decided not to post it.. dont want to deal with it anymore..

I am gunna be more general here

bottom line.. oversteer and understeer propertys are defined by the supension.. but very relative to how the car is driven.. either one can be compensated for by "different driving"..
I am sure bob can agree with that..

I dont see the larger bar beaing a very big issue in my experience.. However my setup is pretty complete and has allways compensated from things like that.. I do however perfer the car to have mild oversteer in hard cornering..
afterall.. slip angles are just fancy oversteer.. ;)

back to the question..
as I stated earlyer I think the issue may be more related to his spring rates.. in conjunction with the bars.. I dunno.. could be 100 different things really.. not just the sway bars..