Anyone have Suspension Techniques Swaybars???

[95silver]

These are 35mm front and 25mm rear. Summit Sells them and RKSports are rebadged ST swaybars. Most seem to think they are overkill and too big. But I though the key to swaybars is ***BALANCING/MATCHING*** sizes, not just "larger is better".
Stock is ratio 30/17 v6 =1.76
30/19 Z28 =1.58
1LE 32/21 =1.5
35/25 =1.4
If the front was 35 and back was 21, then 35/21 = 1.6, not to bad either. These ratios are just math numbers and I don't really know what they mean. But I saw that SLP makes a 35mm front sway bar. They used to have it on their site. If you look at the new ZL-1 red camaro on camaroz28.com, it has the 35mm SLP swaybar. They are all so close that I think the benefits gained by the larger swaybars would be great. Just brainstorming and sharing with everyone :D .

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

25 is too big for the rear. 35 is good for the front if you have sticky tires.

[V6Bob]

Personally, with stock springs, I think 35 is good for the front regardless of the tires you have. How often are you cornering at the tires limit? The 35 will give great steering response and dramatically reduce roll even at lesser speeds. With stiffer springs it's probably a bit much.

I agree that the 25 rear is way too much, even for autocross, and especially for the street. And that's with stock springs.

Looking at the ratios is an excellent idea. One thing to know is that what counts is the fourth power of the ratio. So the comparison between 30/17 and 35/25 is not 1.76 to 1.4 (about 25% different), it's 9.6 to 3.8, 250% different. Even the change from 1.76 to 1.6 is substantial.

[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: V6Bob ]</p>

[95silver]

I've heard of the power of 4 relating to swaybars. Something about 1 or 2 mm will increase stiffness by 200% or more. But shouldn't the company who makes swaybars for a car, such as Suspension Techniques, properly size match swaybars ;) . I don't understand why such a big swaybar in the back is so bad . I used to have Eibach V8 Sportlines on my car and a BMR STB. I put on a 19mm rear v8 swaybar and noticed a big difference. When I sold the springs STB a few months back and put the stock ones back on, the swaybar made less of a difference :( . When I first installed it, the rear was less roll in corners and acutally accelerated better [img]smile.gif[/img] . But now it is almost worthless. Why isn't bigger back swaybar good???? What about 35 front, 21 back :D .

[C.Palmer]

I don't have first hand experience with this because I haven't changed much of my suspension but I hear it has something to do with causing excessive understeer?? or do I have it backwards? I'm just learning this stuff so...

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

21 in the rear and 1LE springs in the rear with stock front end one made my car oversteer ALOT. It wasn't helping anything. When I finished putting in the front it was so much better. 35/21 works, 32/21 works, 35/19 works, 32/19 works. It depends on your springs rates front and back. Sway bars tune the suspension. 32/21 with 1LE springs works for me now. Seems well balanced.

[Patrick Javert]

I'd buy them if they weren't solid and weighed like 10-20 lbs. more.

[Patrick Javert]

I'd buy them if they weren't solid and weighed like 10-20 lbs. more. bigger rear bar=more oversteer more fron bar=more understeer

[95silver]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Patrick Javert:
I'd buy them if they weren't solid and weighed like 10-20 lbs. more.<hr></blockquote>

I am not worried about the extra weight gain ;) . I want the handling over weight reduction :cool: . BTW. I have seem to had a brain fart [img]tongue.gif[/img] . I can't remember the difference between under/over steer . Please re-explain :D .

[LMPerformance]

I have the 35mm/25mm ST bars and they are awesome. the rear does kick out a lot easier now. It adds to the fun factor but can get kinda bad in the rain. I also have the stock springs and Koni single adjustables with the front end lowered about 1/2 inch. There was an unbeliveable diifference in the way the car handled vs stock.
I plan on upgrading to the BMR springs when they become available. they lower the car only about an inch.

they are very heavy at like 40 lds or so. they are much heavier then stock. ALso it depends on what you plan to do as far as springs and shocks as to what you should do. You really cant go wrong with the 1LE setup i have with the poly bushings and poly endlinks. The 1LE bar is hollow so it does not add 40 lds to your front end.

[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: LMPerformance ]</p>

[Patrick Javert]

oversteer is when the a$$ end of the car steps out from behind the car in a turn, commonly known as "fish tailing." too much of this can result in losing control of the rear and having your car end up in an uncontrollable spin(only in the worst situation possible, such as raining, low tread, and you step on it too hard). Understeer is when the rear end keeps pushing the nose of the car foreward, even though the front wheels may be turned one direction or the other. for most normal people, gm sets up their cars w/ a tendence toward understeer, since you can control that by taking your foot off the gas. for the best handling, bias the cornering towards oversteer slightly, since racers tend to know how to power out of corners w/ the a$$ end out a bit.

[V6Bob]

"for the best handling, bias the cornering towards oversteer slightly, since racers tend to know how to power out of corners w/ the a$$ end out a bit."

From: "Drive to Win" by Carroll Smith:

"The day of visible oversteer on paved race tracks, if it was ever really here, is gone. Corner exit oversteer thrills the spectators and makes the inexperienced driver feel heroically fast. In some ways it's a pity that it isn't the fast way around the race track."

Take a look at the pro racers who run up front. Do they hang the rear out? If the rear does come out, the guy behind will make up some time.

[Cale]

I'm planing on switching to a 35mm ST bar (via V6Bob advice). I have the 1LE 32/21 setup right now. Stock springs/shocks. TOo much bodyroll and oversteer is too easy in the corners. Although... I can still get plenty of understeer on those corners after straightaways - but anybody who goes into a corner too hot can do that I suppose.

[V6Bob]

"Although... I can still get plenty of understeer on those corners after straightaways - but anybody who goes into a corner too hot can do that I suppose."

Yep. From Drive to Win (a book you really would get a lot out of, even though it's aimed at more serious race cars) "Drivers make several mistakes while learning to slow the racing car just enough... 4. They brake too late, arriving at the turn in point too fast...

Everyone here (especially me!) will be very interested to see your impressions, street and autocross, on going from the 32 to the 35 bar. Also, your impressions on changing the stock shocks. Doing the changes one at a time would be most useful for us.

[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: V6Bob ]</p>

[95silver]

Great discussion. You are the only people I've met that know as much, if not more ;) , about F-Body suspension than I do. I personally like to strive for handeling over speed in my car. Since I have the 19mm rear bar, maybe I'll try just getting the 35mm front and see what happens. I think this would produce great handeling and also keep me out of troule with some understeer [img]tongue.gif[/img] . Also I was wandering if you guys know anything about the Hellwig or Addco swaybars. Addco has both solid and hollow front and rear combinations. Summit sold all four different Addco bars for $149 each :D , but now they jacked the price of the hollow ones to $249 :mad: . Just letting ya know ;) .

[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: 95silver ]</p>