got sfcs welded in... no difference???

[DarkEcho]

Ok, so i did all the suspension i wanted, shocks springs wheels and tires, i got sways but now i got my boxed bmr sfcs and had them welded in for 50 bucks at an exhaust shop..

i really dont know what im looking for, anyway to see if they did anything, anyway to test them out? cause i really dont think i can feel anything... maybe the shop welded them in wrong? i dont know, it was an exhaust shop, i actually had to go back cause he bolted them in the rear with the LCA bolt, then they aligned them on where they are supposed to go in the front, and they welded it in, then i got to work and realized he never welded the rear part, so i drove back, he put it back on the lift (which was a drive on lift, all the tires were on the "ground") and did the rears, im not sure if he welded all of the corners like he was supposed to but im pretty sure he got most of it... what do u guys think, how can i see if these things really help?

[PiLOTLiTE]

Man, when I welded mine last weekend it made a huge difference. No more T-top rattling, many creaking noises gone, not to mention the whole car seems waaay more solid. And I had already done springs/shocks/sways/bushings/lcas/stb/adj panhard/and wider tires! I wish I had done these sooner!

[ February 16, 2005, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: PiLOTLiTE ]

[F1GT]

I don't have t-tops so my car is more solid than that to begin with. When I drove my car after the install I felt no diff either. Until I cornered around the the circular freeway onramps and offramps. I felt the car being more solid and it got rid of my tire rub.

Try that and also try some railroad crossings.

[HAZ-Matt]

This was in a thread on ls1tech about rear quarter panel dimpling, but it has to do with SFC's. Pay most attention to the last paragraph of the first quote.

SFC connectors do not come within FEET of the quarter panels, and if you've even seen a car wheelhop of brake up without of without SFC's you'll see the same action happening. The quarter panels actually flex and buckle, it's true and I know that. To compare my car having them to a car that has SFC's not having them is a poor decision. My car, or any car driven and setup like mine, goes through things that no street car, no matter how hard it's driven does. For instance I've seen brake hop violent enought to break a stock welded muffler off the intermediate pipe.

I'll reiterate to you the fact that I know of one 4th gen with over 310k miles on it, sans SFC's. Sure it has a few squeaks and rattles, but is much better than most cars with 1/3rd the miles. BTW, that car is a stiffer sprung car (1LE, and is autoxed, daily driven and drag raced almost all the time). Further, I'll add that one customer/member removed his SFC's in order to race in a lower class (ESP vs. SM) and was very suprised by the lack of difference he felt.

I know you felt the difference with SFC's. But it's a simple reason, the stock shocks transmit loads into the body that do not get there with good shocks like Koni's or Bilstein's. It's those things that make the body quiver when driving down the road. So you can put SFC's on to help, and still have lousy shocks. Or you could put good shocks on and realize you don't need the SFC's for squeaks and rattles and such since much less shock is getting to the body in the first place.

and then

The aren't a bad thing, but are done as a first thing when there are bigger fish to fry. First, the car was designed as a convertible car where many cars aren't. That is a boon to chassis stiffness. Can you make it stiffer, yes. Do you need too? Not necessarily. As felton316 pointed out he has welded SFC's and has dimples too.

I never said shocks eliminate the need for SFC's, if you are doing something that SFC's are indeed needed for. Say you have a drag car that pulls 1.4 60's, that would be damn smart to run SFC's on. But the shocks help so much that many folks find the things they think they need SFC's to cure really is helped/cured by better dampers. Classic example. The dash rattle over bumps. My car rarely does it, maybe 5% of the times it did with stock shock (all 100 miles it had stock shocks). Again, SFC's help by not letting the forces move around the uni-body so much, but to begin with most of those forces shouldn't be getting into the uni-body to start with. I'd rather fix the root cause than band-aid it. My humble opinion.

It's not flawed thinking. If you've seen a car hop, which is what mostly causes the dimples you'll see it's not the body twisting in the middle where the connectors add strength. It's the axle shaking and bouncing around that actually flexes the body, which is connected since the body is the frame. But it's not a torsional ridgity issue like you'd get upon launching on sticky tires at a drag strip. A shock tower brace is connected to the body (which again is the frame). It stiffens things up too in ways but wouldn't effect this in any way.

I realize what I'm saying goes against a lot of the things you hear online. Trouble is you hear a lot on line, and a lot of it sounds good when it's not. I've seen folks who I know to be terrible drivers make what sound like good driving arguments. I've seen folks espouse how their setup is the "Best", when they've never tried anything different. The confuse better than what they had with kick-***, can't get better. It goes on and on.

If you have SFC's or want them that's fine. They have their benefits, but a lot of them are overinflated, some are justified. I can show you car after car without them that is fast, and car after car that is in one piece after years and years of poundings.

You can take it for what it's worth coming from me. I know there will be disagreements about it. That's fine. I sell SFC's. I build cars. I race cars in an arena where chassis and handling is key. I also believe in doing what works best first. This started with a newbie (no offense, just what we call new persons) at an autox and SFC's. I said they didn't effect the dimpling, and so far we've seen at least one guy reading the thread reports dimples even with SFC'. I never said my car wasn't dimpled which is what prompted the question in the first place. I'm saying there are many ways to get the dimpling, and just having SFC's won't keep you from getting them. You can have them with SFC's. You can get with without SFC's. You can get them, and usually do from things that SFC's do not control which is the axle jumping around like a Mexican jumping bean.

Sam Strano posted that.

[ February 17, 2005, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: HAZ-Matt ]

[F1GT]

Originally posted by HAZ-Matt:
This was in a thread on ls1tech about rear quarter panel dimpling, but it has to do with SFC's. Pay most attention to the last paragraph of the first quote.

I know it came from Sammy, but Pilolite changed shocks too and THEN he put on SFCs.

I agree that shocks help in dampening what gets transmitted but my freeway cornering has no bumps, totally smooth so the spring is doing the compressing and the shock doesn't have to control anything really. I drove a full framed extended commercial RAM Van at the time and that thing was stiffly sprung and had tall LT Michelin tires and cornered faster, flatter, and more confidently than my Camaro!!! It went up to 42mph+!! Anyone who tried to corner hard, I stayed right behind them, with a van!

I took my camaro on the same circular on ramp and by 35mph it was rubbing the liner and I can hear it start to rub all the rubber off. Granted it has some to do with the tires and softer set up. But after the SFC, it cornered similar still, but was more solid feeling and there was no more rubbing sound on the liner. That was where the difference is that I have felt.

[1DangerousV6]

Originally posted by PiLOTLiTE:
Man, when I welded mine last weekend it made a huge difference. No more T-top rattling, many creaking noises gone, not to mention the whole car seems waaay more solid. And I had already done springs/shocks/sways/bushings/lcas/stb/adj panhard/and wider tires! I wish I had done these sooner!

NICE..these are my next move after the driveshaft (which is sweet..i got it today) and torque arm..im looking at the boxed hotchkis weld in ones

[99v6cam]

Once I get a bit of cash I'm getting my SLP boxed subframes in [img]smile.gif[/img]

[MrCoffee]

mine made a big difference as well. its obvious that t-top owners would bennefit, but I'd imagine that hard tops would too.
The cut down random rattles and complimented the STB which helped cornering with on/off ramps.

[HAZ-Matt]

Originally posted by F1GT:
I know it came from Sammy, but Pilolite changed shocks too and THEN he put on SFCs.

Yes, but those are Bilstein HDs with Hotchkis springs. Not so sure the bound and rebound rates are correct for those, which is part of the issue with the stock shocks on our cars. I bet springs, revalves and no SFCs would perform and ride as well.

[F1GT]

Originally posted by HAZ-Matt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by F1GT:
I know it came from Sammy, but Pilolite changed shocks too and THEN he put on SFCs.

Yes, but those are Bilstein HDs with Hotchkis springs. Not so sure the bound and rebound rates are correct for those, which is part of the issue with the stock shocks on our cars. I bet springs, revalves and no SFCs would perform and ride as well. </font>[/QUOTE]I know it will ride better. But the rattles will still be present and when you push it around a curve, you can feel the solidity of the SFC. Also, the SFC helps quiet down the rattles. I have both the STB and SFC and I barely have any rattles.

I know what you mean by changing out the shocks and springs. My friend did it to his 92 Corolla sedan and it rides way better than stock and it also now rides way better than my car. Amazing. I've considered changing out my shocks to Bilstein HD, but I'm being cheap at the moment since the stockers are still ok.