1le sway bars

[FunkZ]

Re: 1le sway bars

I believe other brands may use a solid 32mm front, which would probably match better with the 21mm rear. A solid front bar would yeild stiffer resistance than a hollow stock or 1LE bar. AFAIK all rear bars are solid.

[CamaroRob97]

Re: 1le sway bars

I run 35/22 Hollow on my, but I have a formula(a 22 hollow rear has the same stiffness as a 21 solid)

These guys are right I woulnd't go anymore then 19 on the rear until you get NICE springs(most of the aftermarket springs are junk). And I wouldnt waste my time/money on only a 32 front.

And not all rear bars are solid. Strano 35/22 hollow bars is what i use.

[V6Bob]

Re: 1le sway bars

Note that putting a 35mm front or a 32 solid on stock springs does not make a 21 rear a good idea. Because it corrects camber change issues, the front bar has way less impact on handling balance than the rear bar.

Honestly, a 21 rear has little use. It's really for roadracers with V8s (more forward weight bias), gigantic front springs (500-600), and lowered cars (which is why they run gigantic springs). I know they sell a lot of them to people who think bigger is better for anything. They also sell 25mm bars, and, although some people here use them, I think they're just wrong. Downright dangerous in wet weather.

Swaybars are about the trickiest mod to get right, particularly rear bar size. One reason is that it's complicated, sometimes not intuitive. Like:

"From 98+ both V6 and V8 had the same rear spring rate, which was stiffer than the 93-97 V8 rear springs. Why would 98+ V6 rear springs be "the WORSEST" to use with a larger rear bar? Seems to me a 93-97 V6 rear spring would be "the WORSEST"

Nope. Other way round. Because the 98+ has softer front springs and a smaller front bar it has less roll resistance up front. So, if you increase the rear roll resistance by putting on something like a 19mm on both cars, you're throwing the balance between front and rear farther out of whack on the 98+ than on a 97-back which has more front roll resistance. This stuff can make your head spin.

Another reason is that people sell a lot of weird bars. I don't tell people what's right, I'm not expert enough. I do know certain things that are wrong, it's an easier call.

Suspension mods aren't like motor mods. If you screw up a motor mod, your car doesn't run. If you screw up suspension mods, your car can be unsafe.

End of lecture. I'm not trying to make you feel stupid or to lord my knowledge over you. I'm honestly only trying to educate you so that you can make better decisions. It's dangerous to mod your car a certain way just because some clown on the net (I include myself in that group) tells you "I have these bars and I think they're great".

[Vracer111]

Re: 1le sway bars

The hollow 36.5mm front/25mm rear Hotchkis Sport anti-roll bar setup works well for my '98 Camaro on stock springs (my Camaro also weighs less than 3250lbs with a full fuel load). Might not work as well as a smaller rear bar would (say hollow 22mm) but works well enough for autocrosses and track days, staying controllable as I have pushed it 100% and over. The only thing with a big rear ARB on stock springs is that it absolutely requires quality adjustable rear shocks and tires that have lots of traction. Koni Sport SA's and 275/40-17 Nitto NT-555RII's all around help it do that. I wouldn't really recommend big ARB's front and rear unless it's for a non-daily driver that is meant for autocross/track duty and you like having a car that goes where you point it nearly instantaneously (especially with a smaller diameter steering wheel instead of the boat-sized stock steering wheel). My Camaro can also be better than stock daily driver friendly with 245/50-16 Yokohama ES-100 front and the Nitto's on rear - predictable understeer at and above the limit, yet still better than stock handling before the limit. I also have the stock open differential, which makes it easier to drive with than a Torsen torque biasing differential would.

Big ARB's are my personal preference. I don't like more spring than necessary and going with larger than stock rate springs will increase the load transfer while also increasing the unsettling force (quicker impulse) the rear liveaxle impacts to the car under bump travel - especially when the rear has been lightened. The stock springs have kept the suspension from bottoming out in both autocross and roadcourse situations and the sprung weight is firmly in control with not a lot of excess body movement (thanks in part to lightening it nearly 200lbs and using the Koni SA shocks), so I see no need to increase the spring rates. Larger rear ARB's don't affect bump force impulses like stiffer springs do, yet they do help out with the transient responsiveness.

In short I don't see a major problems with using large ARB's and stock springs on a V6 Camaro/Firebird provided the following is applied:
1. The car is significantly lightened.
2. The car has proper shocks and tires suited for controlling the handling characteristics of a larger rear ARB on stock springs.
3. The car is mainly to be used as a fun/track car.
4. And finally, the driver is competent enough to know both their and the car's limits and drive within them...

[black98V6]

Re: 1le sway bars

just thought I would throw my hat in the ring on this since I am running the 32/21 combo with 1LE springs and bilsteins.
The car rides rough as hell and the rear end can come around very quickly.
I did the whole suspension at one time. Went from a stock 98 suspension with sagging springs. Stock the car had LOADS of understeer and just felt like a bowl of jello going down the road. The ride wasn't exactly soft and cushy just really unsettled. The 1LE rear LCA's helped some.
So I decided to go all out and did the full 1LE Spring,32/21sways, and bilsteins at one time.
Now the car rides rough, I'm talking I can feel every expansion joint rough, it can also get tail happy but I have pretty sticky BFG's on right now and don't drive stupid.
In the end I still have quite a bit of understeer and have a pretty good feel for the rear end if it's gonig to get out of line, SOTP tells me the car really doesn't handle any better, it just feels more solid. If I had it to do all over again I would have first gone with a good spring/shock setup then found sways to match.

On another note about that shortly after giving the springs some time to settle I had the car aligned and it was prettymuch perfect but in the last year or so I have developed positive camber in both front tires. (that means the tops of both tires are leaned out. I'm pretty positive this has something to do with the springs and sways over time but I can't prove it. I have been running this suspension setup for over 2 years now.

[rdrr96]

Re: 1le sway bars

my family has eibach lowering springs, bilstein ss shocks, the BMR 32mm (solid) front sway bar and a BMR (solid) 21mm sway bar. car runs like a bat outta hell around turns... the car stays on the road better than i can stay in the seat. we also have other mods to the suspension like control arms, panhard rod... blah blah... very stiff suspension, very solid too. barely any body roll going around off ramps at 110. scary fun stuff!:tup:

[Firebirdedgar]

Re: 1le sway bars

well i cancelled the order for 21mm at lmperf. well i guess im just going to install the 32mm upfront. any ideas on bushings cause i need some. i only bought the sway bar itself. what else do i need

[black98V6]

Re: 1le sway bars

well it all depends on what you want to do with your car and what you would be happy with. If I were you I'd research a good spring and shock combo if you want better handling.
Subframe connectors are a nice option so long as they are properly installed. Which ones?? well that's something to research, I have the Kenny Brown double diamonds, still have no idea whether they really do much good but they do allow me to lift the entire side of the car at one jacking point.

In the end before you start modding your suspension you need to really figure out what you want to get out of your mods you can go the route I did and make your car ride stiff as hell or you could just do springs and shocks with a good set of springs and some shocks that are valved to match the springs.

Honestly though if you just want a nice little improvement in ride and handling without tearing the whole thing down just go put on some bilstein shocks. That should give you a nice bump in handling and ride that should be noticeable.

[FirebirdGT]

Re: 1le sway bars

any ideas on bushings cause i need some.

http://www.lmperformance.com/3126/8.html

[Firebirdedgar]

Re: 1le sway bars

so i dont need this http://www.lmperformance.com/1568/13.html

[V6Bob]

Re: 1le sway bars

just thought I would throw my hat in the ring on this since I am running the 32/21 combo with 1LE springs and bilsteins.
The car rides rough as hell and the rear end can come around very quickly.
I did the whole suspension at one time. Went from a stock 98 suspension with sagging springs. Stock the car had LOADS of understeer and just felt like a bowl of jello going down the road. The ride wasn't exactly soft and cushy just really unsettled. The 1LE rear LCA's helped some.
So I decided to go all out and did the full 1LE Spring,32/21sways, and bilsteins at one time.
Now the car rides rough, I'm talking I can feel every expansion joint rough, it can also get tail happy but I have pretty sticky BFG's on right now and don't drive stupid.
In the end I still have quite a bit of understeer and have a pretty good feel for the rear end if it's gonig to get out of line, SOTP tells me the car really doesn't handle any better, it just feels more solid.

Read this carefully, everyone. Particularly, "the car doesn't really handle better" part.

Stiffening suspension reduces traction. On the front, not so much because it improves the camber curve. Lowering the car screws up the suspension geometry unless you do it very expertly, which basically nobody does.

I honestly think that most people who have modified their suspension would be better off with one of GM's three stock setups in its' entirety, with better shocks and tires. This is no business for amateurs.

And I recommend to 98blackv6 that he try swapping in a smaller rear bar. I think that will help.

"Honestly though if you just want a nice little improvement in ride and handling without tearing the whole thing down just go put on some bilstein shocks. That should give you a nice bump in handling and ride that should be noticeable."

Great advice. I would include taking the money that would have been spent on suspension mods and putting it into good tires.

[black98V6]

Re: 1le sway bars

yeah one of these days I'm gonna try to get my hands on a takeoff 19mm gm bar, but I'm soon to be married and already starting to look toward "practical transportation" plus I am down to riding my bike almost everywhere these days, it's alot more fun running through the gears on that after a crappy day at work than the car. Plus the car is dirty and the bike is more shiny :p

[Dominic]

Re: 1le sway bars

Bilstein HD shocks, Stock Springs, 1LE bars, 1LE LCAs, 1LE Panhard rod, no complaints.

When competing in AutoX I've run FTD in my catagory, and I've had a very balanced car for my driving style. If the 21mm bar is too much for you, fine. I honestly could use some stiffer front springs now, but that's mainly for speedbumps not cornering.

Again, no complaints. V6bob, you take things too seriously. I drive my car in the dry, rain, and even SNOW with 32/21. It's 100% fine. Ive tried the 19 in the rear, and the stock in the rear, and the 21 allows me to somewhat oversteer but its still THROTTLE oversteer. It understeers under neutral gas and braking.

If this thread gets too out of hand Im locking it. Go easy guys.

[FirebirdGT]

Re: 1le sway bars

so i dont need this http://www.lmperformance.com/1568/13.html

Just get the endlinks separately.

[CamaroRob97]

Re: 1le sway bars

just thought I would throw my hat in the ring on this since I am running the 32/21 combo with 1LE springs and bilsteins.
The car rides rough as hell and the rear end can come around very quickly.
I did the whole suspension at one time. Went from a stock 98 suspension with sagging springs. Stock the car had LOADS of understeer and just felt like a bowl of jello going down the road. The ride wasn't exactly soft and cushy just really unsettled. The 1LE rear LCA's helped some.
So I decided to go all out and did the full 1LE Spring,32/21sways, and bilsteins at one time.
Now the car rides rough, I'm talking I can feel every expansion joint rough, it can also get tail happy but I have pretty sticky BFG's on right now and don't drive stupid.
In the end I still have quite a bit of understeer and have a pretty good feel for the rear end if it's gonig to get out of line, SOTP tells me the car really doesn't handle any better, it just feels more solid. If I had it to do all over again I would have first gone with a good spring/shock setup then found sways to match.

On another note about that shortly after giving the springs some time to settle I had the car aligned and it was prettymuch perfect but in the last year or so I have developed positive camber in both front tires. (that means the tops of both tires are leaned out. I'm pretty positive this has something to do with the springs and sways over time but I can't prove it. I have been running this suspension setup for over 2 years now.

One big reason why the ride is really rough and your not noticing the handling imporvement is becuase your shocks aren't perfectaly valved to match your springs. The most important thing on your suspension to upgrade is Shocks(they must be matched to what springs you use). The only true way of doing this is using Koni SA or DA shocks or Re-Valved bilistens.

The 2nd most important thing on these cars are Swaybars. I would never waste my time with only a 32 front. Rear depends on what you do. You guys with v6's really should have better springs(more rate, escpially in the front) before doing the rear. The front you can get away with.

3rd most important is springs, again rates depend on what you want to do with the car.

4th is panhard bar

5th is LCA

In the end your springs/shocks/bars need to be matched to really truely have a car that handles like it should period.

I agree with v6 bob on the tires though. GOOD tires will make or break your suspension setup. Not only does it help with handling and traction, it also helps in breaking distance.